Shoulder Scales with State Units.

[2ndNHDOC]

While gandering through a "Soldiers Pen" by Robert E. Bonner I observed the sketches of a fictional Private "George" of the 44th Mass and his experiances. The drawings were obviously an exaggeration of experiances but one thing I did notice several times in the drawings is what appears to be shoulder scales on a frock coat. This struck me as interesting that the drawer would make a point of putting scales in his drawing even when the charecter was performing fatigue details such as felling trees and while on picket duty. Now most likely he selected one uniform image to redraw over and over again but it still is funny to me that he would choose Scales and Frock coat. Were Shoulder Scales more common among States regimants Earlier (61-63) in the war then is portrayed?

[Enfilade]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

I cannot answer as to each individual state and their specific regs on "shoulder scales". I believe there was actually a shoulder scale found at Bentonville if you can believe someone had them that late in the war. But as the war progressed the need for ornamentation became more lax. By 1864 the U.S. regs no longer called for them. Originally used as dress insignia for rank, shoulder scales were also used as a shield for sabre attacks to the head by cavalry but most soldiers hated the things since they tarnished so easy. One thing they did do was they distinguished an Army uniform from other coats and that's probably why the drawings used the depiction rather than for any historical accuracy on our time-line.

Mark Berrier
North State Rifles

http://www.northstaterifles.com

[2ndNHDOC]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

Thanks Mark. That makes sense the drawer might use the scales to just show this is a soldier. If you haven't picked up the book I do recommend it.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

Hi Brian,

In the unit I am in, 1st California Vol Inf Co F, along with other California regiments. Historically speaking, they were issued shoulder scales. But these were only used for full dress parade and full dress occasions, along with the fully trimmed out Hardee. When on active campaign, these were left in the barracks and the fatigue blouse was used along with a worn out or extra drawn dress hat left un adorned.

Originally part of the California Column, they originally used their first issued m1858 dress hat with all the adornment and trim taken off. By order of the Commanding Col of the column, James H Carlton (Gen Orders No 3)


It is important to remember the army still used the shoulder scale and the dress uniform all the way until the US Army uniform changes in 1872.


Don S

[7thNJcoA]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

I dont know about whereing the shoulder scales but our Unit 7th NJ wore Frocks throughout the war and Reenacting in a frock doing just minor camp duty in the heat is not a pleasant time! They also wore those damn canvas gaiters til after Gettysburg becuase nobody had a serviceable pair anymore. I know most units threw em out early but the stubborn 7th wanted to be special I gues! I have never seen a period image of a soldier wearing scales that was in the midst of some sort of fatigue duty.

[2ndNHDOC]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

Hi Brian,

In the unit I am in, 1st California Vol Inf Co F, along with other California regiments. Historically speaking, they were issued shoulder scales. But these were only used for full dress parade and full dress occasions, along with the fully trimmed out Hardee. When on active campaign, these were left in the barracks and the fatigue blouse was used along with a worn out or extra drawn dress hat left un adorned.

Originally part of the California Column, they originally used their first issued m1858 dress hat with all the adornment and trim taken off. By order of the Commanding Col of the column, James H Carlton (Gen Orders No 3)


It is important to remember the army still used the shoulder scale and the dress uniform all the way until the US Army uniform changes in 1872.


Don S

That is what I am thinking. They were issued for parade etc but not worn normally. I think the author/artist showed them since he knew of them.

Off subject are you out of CA?

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

That is what I am thinking. They were issued for parade etc but not worn normally. I think the author/artist showed them since he knew of them.

Off subject are you out of CA?

Hi Brian,

I am out of AZ; we have members in CA and AZ. We operate in AZ most of the time on or near some of the actual sites the 1st CA was, in addition to West Texas & New Mexico.

The 1st Ca once in the South West, mainly operated from Forts that were either re established or were newly established. Going out for about 2 weeks to a Month at a time on marches, scouts and patrols to deal with hostile bands of Apache, Yavapai, and Navajo. As well as dealing with desperate characters, mapping the region and generally holding up martial law in the region protecting citizens.


On a note pertaining to this thread. At Ft Whipple in Prescott AZ, they have found a shoulder scale in the area of the Ft built in 1863, along with other items

Where are you out of Brian?

All the best

Don S

[mtvernon]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

I have a portrait of my GGGrandfather. I forget what it is called, but it's a hybrid between a photo and a drawing. He is clearly wearing a frock. The buttons are all painted gold, and some other color enhances the image, but it also features shoulder scales. The buttons are probably visible under the paint, but the scales look entirely painted on. Another image I have of him, this one strictly photographic, shows no scales.

In an effort to recreate as much as possible his uniform, how can I conclude if he actually wore them, or was even issued them? Do state records have detail on that level? I tend to believe the painted scales are an artistic embellishment. The regiment, 10th NYHA, has a few photos on the New York Mil. Museum site, and likewise I find no scales in the pictures there among the 10th, nor on other photos of similar regiments.

[GeraldDuval]

Re: Shoulder Scales with State Units.

At Fort delaware we have a bunch of drawing from a prisoner showing much of the infantry and artillery wearing scales. This is not only a garrison, but a prison camp as well, so I don't know how helpful that is...

My personal favorite is a drawing of men wearing scales on a light artillery roundabout. Just bizarre.