Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

[The Wizard]

The original .58 Minnie bullets were swaged. Does anyone know of a source of swaged original 1860's design .58 Minnie bullets?

[csabugler]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/index.php

That is the link to the North-South Skirmish Association. About 4000 guys all shooting live ammo black powder. Somebody there can probably supply any
mold or round you want. I've been out for about 9 years, but there used to be a huge variety in use.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

Hallo!

Not that I know of commercially available.
Over the past four decades there have been some N-SSA lads or two that have built a home swedging machine, but none that I knew personally. (Most were/are after "speed" and the nose cast, sprue blunted tips did not matter...)

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[58 Enfield]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

The original .58 Minnie bullets were swaged. Does anyone know of a source of swaged original 1860's design .58 Minnie bullets?

Not all .58 minnies were swaged or properly called pressed and turned, infact, most were not. The "swage" markes in the base were actually marks from the lathe. There were 5 and 6 spoke varieties depending on the tooling. Most .58 minnies had some variant of a cone in the base. Some had a star (Washington Arsenal) while some even had a US in the base. You're not likely to find a supplier of minnies with swage marks in the base as I don't know of anyone who actually uses a lathe to turn their bullets these days. Like Curt said, you may find someone with the NSSA who goes the extra mile for accuracy and can offer you some pressed and turned rounds.


Mike Rogers

[Masich]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

By the time the war began, most US arsenals were employing swaging presses for .58 and .69 caliber Burton or Minie-style bullets. I would also like to know if there is anyone out there reproducing authentic-looking (pointed nose, with or w/o swage marks in base) minie balls that we can used in a museum exhibition focused on Allegheny Arsenal (which manufactured presses for other arsenals).

[Jimmayo]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

Andy: Is the one in the middle close enough for your needs? If so, it is cast from Lyman .575 213OS mold. "OS" stands for old style. I believe another maker also makes a mold for an old style bullet but I can't remember who it was.

[Jimmayo]

Non-dug original and reproduction 575OS

Here is an original and the modern reproduction. The rings are a little more narrower on the original .

[Masich]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

Thanks for the good photos, Jim. The Lyman "Old Style" minie that you pictured is the closest I've found to an original in a commercially produced mold. The only obvious flaw is that it's a little short and has the flat top caused by the nose cast sprue cutter. We need someone to cast about 200 of these, solder a glob of lead to the nose and then lathe turn them so they'll look like the original pressed (swaged) bullets. Any volunteers?

[Minieball577]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

If you were to make or buy a "top punch" dye for a reloading press in the shape of the original bullet's nose you may be able to reform the top of the bullet removing the prominence of the flat nose casting sprue. This happens sometimes when I run certain bullets through a "lubri-sizer" before loading rounds for a live fire match.

[threepdr]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

I'm also a NSSA shooter so I have seen most of the repro minnie molds that are availible. One rule of thumb, most three ring minnies made by the Feds were cold pressed. Early in the war they were buying minnies and ready made cartridges from various vendors that contained cast bullets. Style and quality varied tremendously. As the War progressed fewer and fewer of the cast bullets were used.

Some of the pressed bullets are known as "machined turned" because they look like the grooves were turned on a lathe (don't know if they truley were or not). These are the ones with the 5 or 6 spoke star in the base. They have a different external profile from the standard pressed bullet.

Back about 1975 I saw an original minnie mold marked "Frankfort Arsenal, 1855". It was a heavy brass two cavity mold. The odd thing was the lead was poured into the edge of the skirt. After trimming it would leave very little trace that it was cast vs. pressed. Wish I had bought the mold, but it was priced at a wopping $75, almost a week's pay for someone right out of high school at the time!

I know of no CS made bullets that were cold pressed.

The most authenic mold that I have found is the IDEAL brand 575213. That nomenclature was taken over by Lyman when IDEAL went out of buisness but they are not the same bullet.

The Winchester Sutler offers some swaged minnies, but they do not have a period style profile.

Here is a period drawing of the bullet and its diminsions. Notice it is not .575 as most modern minnies. It is only 2.5 thousands less than bore size. Live shooters rely on bullets cast only 1 or 2 thousands less than actual bore size to get consistant accuracy.



Mark Hubbs
Huntsville, AL

[Masich]

Re: Authentic .58 Minnie Bullets

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know. Before the war Allegheny Arsenal turned out about 8,000 machine made bullets and hand made the paper cartridges every day. This went up to about 50,000 by the end of the first year of the war. The bullet presses could only crank out 60-80 balls per minute--so the arsenal had to by bullets, cast and pressed, from contractors in order to get production up to 300,000/day. Of course, cartridge production went up considerably after the arsenal commander fired the boys who were the principal makers of cartridges and hired women and girls (who weren't as likely to smoke, play with matches or goof off as the boys were). The arsenal laboratories blew up on September 17, 1862--to this day the cause is not known with certainty (sparks from a horse shoe or wagon tire on stone-paved streets or perhaps static charge from silk skirts, or those boys with their matches? Any other theories out there?). What we do know is that the bullets from contractors (molded and swaged) and the arsenal's machine presses kept the cartridge rollers busy. The bullets are difficult to identify as being Allegheny produced unless they're found in Allegheny Arsenal marked packets.
I'd still like to find someone with a swaging press to run some pointed nosed .58 cal bullets or maybe someone with a creative bent and a lathe to turn the pointed nose on the fat-nosed Lyman .69 minie to make it look like a machine made Allegheny Arsenal ball.