English Army Cloth Frock Coats

[DBURT]

Re: English Army Cloth Frock Coats

As Neill rightly points out,look at the McRae papers site on this website.
You will see an invoice dated 14th Dec 1861, by Caleb Huse through S Isaac Campbell & Co, which details some 7,000 yards of "Blue Grey Army Cloth" coming in.

Dave Burt, ACWS, England.

[rbruno]

Re: English Army Cloth Frock Coats

I agree with the idea that the British cloth was coming into the south before 1863. I have not looked at the McRae papers in that much detail, but the reference to 14th Dec. 1861 certainly proves the fact that the material was here. A point I would like to see is a comparison from 1861 to 1863 to 1865 on the amounts coming in. 7,000 yards sound like a lot, but it takes about 5 yards to make a jacket and pants. That means approximatly 1400 uniforms could have been made from that shipment. That dosen't include any of the other garments that could have been made from the material. How many men did the Confederacy have in the field in both theaters in 1861? Again, not including the number of men in the garrisons, depots, or other non-field related duties? If indeed the Mcrae papers and other documents show a relative small amount of cloth coming in before 1863 compared to the number of men in service, we would get an idea of how correct the cloth would be for early war events. I guess what I am saying is at an early war event, you should not see many blue/gray kersey coats. One or two here and there I think would be correct. After 1863, if the Mcrae papers and other documents show a tremendous more amount of the fabric coming in, than we should have more in the field for late war events.

As far as frock coats, officers were getting coats custom made in England and sent over. There are a couple I think in EOG. So, I think English army cloth would be correct for an officer coat, but not sure for an early war frock coat.
Just my thoughts

Rob Bruno
1st MD Cav

[BobDenton37thVA]

Re: English Army Cloth Frock Coats

I echo what John said.

Seeing that English Army Cloth didn't come into the picture until the end of 63 at the earliest, I would think it highly unlikely that there would be any enlisted frocks made out of the material.

Actually, there is solid documentation for a shipment of "blue English uniforms" being supplied to Colston's 1st Brigade (Jackson old Division) as early as the 1st Quarter of 1863. Here's the reference:

Turner, Charles W. Ted Barclay, Liberty Hall Volunteers: Letters from the Stonewall Brigade 1861-1864 (Natural Bridge Station, Va.: Rockbridge Publishing Co., 1992). Barclay served as an officer in Co. I, 4th Virginia Infantry

It's of interest that an analysis of clothing issued to the 37th VA (based on data from the Compiled Service Records) showed a little data "spike" of clothing issues to the 37th during 1st Qtr. 1863. This is notable as it was during the same period as when Barclay mentions the 1st Brigade received their "blue english uniforms". As the 37th was in Colston's 3rd Brigade, this suggests that perhaps the entire Division may have received these English uniforms.

Also, bear in mind that so-called "English Army Cloth", blue-gray kersey, and "cadet" gray are essentially the same; the only difference being the point of origin. When Chris Graham and I undertook our research for an article we published on the subject in the Camp Chase Gazette, we were able to examine several examples of cadet gray (officer's) frocks that dated from early in the war, and compared them to later, bona fide enlisted shell jackets made from "army cloth". The fabric in both cases was nearly identical in color and weave, and under microscopy, was seen to be made of individual fibres of light and dark blue, as well as light and dark gray (nearly black).

Here's the reference to our article if you're interested:

Denton, R. K. Jr. and C. Graham, 1994, Observations on the Confederate enlisted uniform: variation and color, Part I, Camp Chase Gazette 22(2): 34-41.
Denton, R. K. Jr. and C. Graham, 1995, Observations on the Confederate enlisted uniform: variation and color, Part II, Camp Chase Gazette 22(3): 36-42.

Be that as it may, there are numerous surviving examples of shell jackets, officers frocks, and trousers (enlisted and officers) made from this cloth. But to my knowledge, no enlisted men's frock coats have ever surfaced made from B/G kersey, regardless of its point of origin. Now that doesn't mean they were never made; but we have no artifacts to support the conjecture.

Regards,
Bob D.

[Iceman]

Re: English Army Cloth Frock Coats

In response to Phil's question about what Grisamore has to say about blue-grey cloth, Grisamore writes; "Camp Bisland, April 12, 1863. During our encampment here and at Fausse Point, we were furnished with a lot of Confederate grey cloth, which was distributed among the different camps."

A local tailor came to camp, took the measurments of everyone and had new coats made from this Confederate cloth. The way that Grisamore discribes these coats indicates that they were frocks. Grisamore writes, "The coats were admirable fits, but somehow or other the men had forgotten how to put on fashionable clothes since they had been campaigning - and ran their arms through their sleeves up to the elbow and pulled the garment so high up behind the neck that the buttons were right between the shoulders, and the buttons were real shining brass beauties that fairly glistened when the sun dared to shine on them. And the tails were drawn up so high that the new patches and flags of truce in the rear were very conspicuous, forming an admirable contrast with those brass buttons."

In the footnotes, author Art Bergeron has the following passage regarding the source of this cloth, "In late October or early November, 1862, General Taylor confiscated from a shipment intended for east of the Mississippi enough cloth to outfit approximately six thousand men. The cloth was then distributed to the men in the field. (OR, XV, 867)."