Pillow Tick Frocks

[44thGa]

I'm kinda new so I was just wondering how often frocks were seen made out of pillow tick fabric. I know of one in existence. Anybody know of any more?
Thanks,
Ben Fowler

[61' reb]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I know of the one that is in the Confederate Echoes of Glory, but other than that i'm not too sure. I am in a mess with a few guys who have gotten some made out of red and white pillowticking...to say the least it looks retarded and they are trying to document them to the AoT. A friend of mine said that the only one he knows of was sent from home.
I would like to know where they came from or how many there were, were they issue or a type of commutation thing?

[marylandreb]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

The coat that you are writing about belonged to Benjamin Schumpert he was a member of Kershaw's Brigade Longstreet's Corps A.N.V. There is a great article about this coat and it's owner Pvt. Schumpert in "North South Trader's Civil War" magazine Vol.32 No.6
2007.You can order back issues from them by phone ,they are in Orange Va. or they have a online site by the same name

[tenfed1861]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

The only thing I can think of is that frocks like this were made out of pillow ticking were ment for summer wear.It seems that the material might be lighter,so it would make a good jackets/frocks.Another theory was it was ment for troops who didn't have a whole lot of money.Maybe a poor farmer since it does seem that pillow ticking would be rather in-expensive.
Just my two cents.

[LWhite64]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

Well the Atlanta History Center currently has the Schumpert frock, they are trying to raise the money to buy the collection it belongs too. Also the current issue of North South Trader has an article on it. To sum things up though, it was home made for him, and sent, so as far as any records go this is the only one. He was killed wearing it at Chickamauga and his cousin sent it home along with his other belongings. Also, he was in the 3rd South Carolina Infantry Regt, so this would make it Army of Northern Virginia. The Coat is believed to also be true homespun ticking, with orangeish brown stripes, and the pants are light blue stripped. The buttons that are now on the coat and pictured in Echoes are not original to the coat, no idea what was once there, but the pants have bone buttons on them. I would stay very far away from it as a reproduction as it falls into the same camp as was being discussed earlier about the jaguar skin trousers.

Lee

[Iron Scout]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

Folks,

I couldn't agree more with Lee. I've viewed the coat in person and really shy away from the "ticking" terminology. It's made from striped cotton as Lee mentions in two different color combinations. I have pics of it when it was on display in Kennesaw. I'll endevour to post those once I return home from a business trip. Considering most of Longstreet's folks were decked out in English cloth, this guy must have really stuck out!

Neill Rose
PLHA

[marylandreb]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I would agree with both Neill and Lee do not consider this coat, it's a one of a kind, the best way to go with a
frock is standard pattern and cloth or choice of good vendor

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

Hi,

According to Echoes of Glory there are several of these that existed, but it does not give a exact number. That being said I would go with a standard Confederate frock coat of wool jean. I have sewn one of these ticking frock coats for my little brother (a non-reenactor) for fun, and it does look interesting.

Andrew Kasmar

4th Missouri Company E
Army of Tennessee

[44thGa]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

Thanks everyone. A lady I go to church with sewed me one from the pic of the Schumbert coat. Just wondering what the general concensus was.

Ben Fowler

[JimConley]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I would stay very far away from it as a reproduction as it falls into the same camp as was being discussed earlier about the jaguar skin trousers.

Lee and Neill are definitely on the right page here. While the original coat is very interesting, folks should keep in mind that there has been no evidence to us of similar coats being made in any kind of numbers.

I dread the day that there's a bully buy on "reproductions" of this coat! :sick:

[Coatsy]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I have seen the coat up close at the AHC and I have seen a very BAD reproduction of it at a local event. The repro was made out of the ticking that is available at Wally World, and it looked like a prison convict suit more than a military uniform. But I am getting off topic a bit. The coat is like what Neill and Lee said. A one of a kind, and it wasn't the everyday deal that most of Schumpert's pards were issued. See what Neill said about Kershaw's boys at Chickamauga. Also don't take what is said in EOG as the definitive answer as well. Try to get unit issue reports, or at least brigade issue. That is usually more in the ballpark.

[jgr1974]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I need to do some digging but I believe The traitor John Logan's men of the 41st Illinois wore ticking uniforms for recruiting while on furlough in Southron Illinois.

The Mad MIck!

[Cincinnati Rebel]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

The fact that cotton uniforms of this type existed is clear. The question of whether they were issued and in what quantities is a tantalizing challenge for the researcher. There is indeed evidence of 1000 being issued at one time.

To clarify a statement made above, there is no effort, at least by the mess indicated, to try to document the uniforms to the AoT. The Schumpert example in Echoes of Glory has been identified to the ANV, and seemingly to an individual from a civilian source rather than in quantity. As Andrew K. & others have pointed out, Echoes does refer to several others in the western theatre, without indicating how many.

Thanks, Cullen, for the words of wisdom that the material would be attractive in the sense of being inexpensive, and cooler for summer use. Unfortunately for troops who received them, they were issued during the winter of 1861-62.

Among other things, we know these facts about the fact that a significant quantity of the uniforms were issued, and the circumstances at the time:
* Col. John S. Williams of the 5th Kentucky Infantry said "my men were badly clad and badly armed, with not a knapsack, haversack, or canteen. They carried their powder in horns, gourds, and bottles." Cartridge boxes arrived after the November 8 engagement at Ivy Mountain. "We had powder and lead, and made our own cartridges and molded our own bullets."
* Jan. 3, 1862 at Paintsville KY, only 594 of 806 men in the 5th Kentucky reported for duty since so many were sick. On Jan. 23, 400 in the regiment were sick.
* On Jan. 14, 1862 Humphrey Marshall's entire Brigade had no overcoats and few blankets.
* General A.S. Johnston, upon observing the condition of Marshall's troops, secured 1000 of the cotton suits, complete with hats and shoes.
* At least sizeable portions of the 29th Virginia Infantry and 5th Kentucky Infantry received the cotton suits. The numbers present for the unit confirm that the entire 5th KY did not receive them, and it is likely that not the entire 29th VA did either.

While we do not have a surviving original (eastern Kentucky) cotton suit to look at for details of the pattern and other specs, we do have some primary sources that confirm this issue of cotton uniforms on a significant scale. The writings of Rev. Edward O. Guerrant, AAG on Marshall's staff, describe them. Official records and correspondence give sometimes subtil confirmation as well as the surrounding circumstances. A gentleman with a great grandfather in the 29th VA has verified that they wore this uniform. Another potential source is the regimental history of the 29th Virginia Infantry by John Perry Alderman. If anyone has it and it refers to the uniform, please contact me.

Naturally, the odd uniforms stood out from the rest, and would not meet anyone's fashion approval today; but we are to portray what the soldiers wore, not what we think would look good. As a matter of fact from a first hand account, the ugly uniforms were not well received by the troops. They complained, Marshall made speeches about the devotion of the soldiers and inventing their merits of the uniform material, and the men reluctantly took them rather than do without.

With all of that said, the uncommon is far too common in reenacting, and the common is very underrepresented. We stand on the premise that individuals should choose their impression based on documentation that exists for the unit, theatre, and time period portrayed. If documentation exists for something unusual in your unit, portray it, at least on occasion--it deserves to be remembered. If not, stick to common jeancloth.

[LWhite64]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

I dont think anyone was against cotton uniforms, there is evidence of their use, it was just against the striped Schumpert uniform. I know that there were cotton trousers being issued to the AOT in the late summer of 63, and also in the fall (they werent happy about that either). Just not too much info to go on for what the jackets/coats would have looked like.

Lee

[Iron Scout]

Re: Pillow Tick Frocks

Folks,

Just for fun, I thought I'd actually post some pics of the actual coat. As one can see, the garment is constructed of striped cotton goods.

Neill Rose
PLHA