Houston Depot jacket CDC?

[DougCooper]

Ok, I give up - have been attempting to load a photo for 30 mins with no success and cannot find directions under FAQ, etc - can someone please point me to directions on how to load a photo.

Have what might be a confirmed HD jacket photo that I am attempting to post - if all else fails somebody can do it for me.

Feeling badly tech challenged....

[Michael McComas]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDV?

Doug,

First thing to do is to upload it as an attachment. You can then link it from the AC database. You can't link from your C: drive unless you happen to be running a web server of your own.

Or email it to me. I had good luck loading an image a few days ago.

-Michael
Techie for hire

[paulcalloway]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

If you reply to this message, down below (underneath the Submit Reply button) is "Additional Options"... the second option there is "Manage Attachments"... clicking that should bring up a small window where you can browse through your harddrive, select a file and upload it.

[DougCooper]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDV?

Paul - thanks so much. that was easy.

All - the following description of this CDV was sent by owner KC McDonald of the Lazy Jacks. Many of us have been looking for the Holy Grail of TMD CS uniforms, the Houston Depot jacket. Well described by the QM Major Wharton and produced in the thousands, we have yet to ID a surviving original or even a bonafide photo. This may be it.

From KC: I secured this ambrotype in December, jpg attached, but only just had delivered. It is of Pvt. August Ritter, a Texas-German who served with Co G, 1st Texas Heavy Artillery (including the Battle of Galveston) and subsequently transferred to Dege's Batt'n Texas Lt. Artillery (who I believe saw no action). The Houston-area collector I bought it from retained a second ambrotype of Ritter which looks to have been taken ca.1861-62 (he is dressed in a kepi and a frock coat with facings).
Given the appearance of the fabric and number of buttons (ca.6), as well as the context, I believe we are looking at a real Houston Depot jacket Winter issue (w/ British Kersey cloth) at long last!

The tie around his neck is a very thin loose-knitted wool scarf with three bands of color: a dark band, flanked by two light (white?) bands. There is a little fringe hanging off the end -- just like on those stereotypical scarves 'knitted by grandma"! I have seen similar on a few other Texan ambros over the years. Worth getting any available Grannies (or other knitters) working on a few repros (they would hardly take much time!). The shirt is also interesting in that it features heavily embroidered horizontal bands that look very 'Native American'.
Yep, the trousers might be matching the jacket which would correlate with a remark in Lone Star and Double Eagle about the issue of 'winter suits'.
The buttons are very hard to tell, as they were gilded by the photographer! However the third button down has only a very thin veneer of gilding, and about 2/3s of it are not gilded, so I can just about pick out a pattern on it. The motif is very central and looks 'triangular' (so it is not the TE Miller star). I believe it is a single letter A on a two piece button.
Top stitching is very tight up on the margins of the jacket (1/8th to 1/4" in). I can't make out a stitch line on the cuffs (though there is a hint of what might be whip-stitching showing through about 1 inch in from the edge). Collar has a fairly squared margin, which is in line with other potential Trans-Miss depot gear -- e.g. the famous Arkansas group photo and the late war Louisiana jacket in the Troiani collection.."

The other photo here is Ritter in what looks like a commutation frock as KC says above.

Enjoy...and thanks KC!

Sorry folks - the picutres are both too large to post and I do not have the ability to resize with current software - Mike they are coming to you to post - hopefully. This is the worst case of photo-interruptus yet.

[Michael McComas]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

This is the later image of Ritter. I cropped out the frame and reduced the image to 75% to get it to post. Email me for the full size copy if you're interested.



This is the earlier image. I again cropped the frame, which was quite lovely, but it had to go.



Always happy to be of service.

[DougCooper]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDV?

thanks Mike!! I concur with KC - that looks like Kersey on both jacket and trousers. This may be it - the photo we have been looking for. Looks like no trim on the collar?, something Wharton confirms for a portion of the jackets.

Ritter - Tex Ritter :)

[Holy Joe]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

Fantastic photo!!! Thank you for sharing! I'll have to go back to the CSR's and see if/when Wharton was issuing these things to the 1st Heavy. If possible, could one of you guys with the full-size version please forward it to me via e-mail?

I'll reserve comments/assumptions until I get a good look at this bad-boy, BUT I can tell you that looking at Whaton's inspection reports, Red and Yellow broadcloth for trim was VERY hard to come by.....At one point, he mentions that he's using the stock on hand (a few dozen yards) for officers uniforms/trim. I concur that the cloth looks similar to Kersey and it looks like it could possibly be a 7 button front (Wharton even stated 7). There's something about those sleeves that reminds me of the "Mansfield" jacket.....

Phil, you have my copies of Wharton's inspection report....dosen't he mention block "A" buttons for Artillery jackets in there somewhere?

Beautiful photo, thank you so much for sharing!!!!

[D F Smith Historic]

Possible Houston Depot jacket pic

Hi All,

Great picture! KC McDonald sent a copy of the top picture to me a while back. After examining it, I figure the possibility of it being a Houston product is very good, (90% possibility) in my opinion.

The top pictures shade of gray of the jacket is consistant with how blue-gray appears on the "Black and White" scale. Although since there are no existant physical examples as of yet of the Houston jacket (3 or more to establish a "type" as established by Les Jensen). This one certanly has all the attributes of the Houston products, including connection to a unit that was issued products from the Houston Depot.
There is another picture in the Smith County Historical Society Museum Archives of a fellow who joined up with Douglas's Battery. His picture was taken in Tyler, Smith County prior to his going to join his unit. The immage is very crisp, and shows a jacket matching the Houston jacket description, fully trimed, and interestingly enough. A line of machine stitching can be clearly seen going up the front on the one side. It is VERY simmilar to the image we are discussing here.




As for the second picture. It is possibly an earlyer pictire of Ritter in a frock (Houston did make frocks for the 1st Heavy, although to my knowledge the frocks were a custom order from the Depot). According to KC McDonald

"The Houston-area collector I bought it from retained a second ambrotype of Ritter which looks to have been earlier where he is dressed in a kepi and a frock coat with facings."


It is interesting to see the cuff buttons going up the front face of the cuff trim, much like some jackets and frocks in the Tennessee theater.

The Mansfield jacket Gary mentioned, has cuff buttons as well. Although it is made of Sheeps Gray Jean/ Sattenet with the 3 cuff buttons going up the back seam of the sleeve at the cuff, rather than on the face of the cuff. The Masfield jacket is probbably a product of Louisiana. A Full Report is available to the public on the Mansfield jacket at Mansfield State Historic Site.


All the best,

Don S

[Holy Joe]

Re: Possible Houston Depot jacket pic

Don,

I don't have a copy of the Texas Portraits of conflict available to reference, I was hoping that you might have the capability of posting the image of the individual in Douglas's Battery for comparison's sake. (Would be neat to see the images side-by-side)

I'll check Wharton's Inspection report next time I'm down at the library and see if there's any mention of the 1st Heavy.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

Gary,

Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner hooked up to my machine. I agree, It would be great to see the immages side by side. Maybe one of the other fellows here in the TMD can scan & post it.


Don S

[Holy Joe]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

For compairson's sake, I'll try to get a copy of that photo in the Texas Portraits of Conflict and post it here....I should also be going to the library in the next few weeks, so I'll pull Wharton's Inspection reports and I'll also see if I can't get ahold of the 1st Heavy's CSR's.

Those of you that have Morgan Wolfe Merrick's journal/sketchbook, note the drawing on pg. 49 (the fold-out)

This picture shows men running from the "Blacksmith Shop" over the railroad tracks & across the bridge to a captured Federal encampment. If you note the Sergeant in the foreground (Bottom left) is wearing what appears to be a Houston Depot Jacket. (Wharton's inspection reports mention that Merrick's unit was issued supplies from the HD prior to leaving Texas) If you pay special attention to his sleeve, you'll note the appearance of a line, indicating 2 pc. sleeve construction, which is consistent with the image posted here....This detail is also found on the soldier in the middle of the picture, running with his rifle at right shoulder shift. I wil try very hard to scan the image tonight and post it here.....

Great find, Doug...thanks again for sharing....it looks like we have found the "holy grail"!

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

I have followed this thread with interest, and know how important ANY info, photographic, documented, or surviving examples of Houston Depot Jackets will be. This also includes the Huntsville Cloth Jackets we read about.

OK, I know Les Jensen in his 89 article; http://company.military-historians.o...federate-1.htm states the following:

“Two basic rules of thumb in these attributions have been that there must be at least three surviving uniforms of a given type to constitute a pattern, and those uniforms should each have histories that indicate a common source.”

How binding is that statement to everyone? We have a great photo of a Texas boy with a “Shell Jacket” but no real documentation of what, where, & when he may have got it. We have descriptions, letters, and other documentation on clothing coming from Houston, but I take it we are short of surviving examples?

Now my intent is not to rain on anyone’s parade, you boys that have a great interest in the Tran Mississippi Theater have my respect. I sometimes lament that everyone gives more credit to the ANV, than the AOT, but then realize that the Trans Mississippi plays 3rd fiddle to everyone else!

I’d like to know what you think of how far can we push the “envelope”, on what we do go by on what we can use for guidelines on Uniform documentation?

Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

Is Major Wharton's description of the H/D jacket accessable on-line anwhere? If not, does anyone know where it can be obtained?

Respectfully,
Chad Teasley
CHAPs

[Eric Fair]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

Chad,

You can find Wharton's description in KC MacDonald's excellent article on Trans-Miss uniforms on the Lazy Jacks page. Here's the URL:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/lazyjacks/tranmis1.htm

The H/D material from the article is largely based on Fred Adolphus' article "Confederate Clothing of the Houston Quartermaster Depot," Military Collector and Historian 48: 171-180. I believe you will be getting a copy of that soon. :)

Your Servant,
Eric Fair

[Chad Teasley]

Re: Houston Depot jacket CDC?

Chad,

You can find Wharton's description in KC MacDonald's excellent article on Trans-Miss uniforms on the Lazy Jacks page. Here's the URL:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/lazyjacks/tranmis1.htm

The H/D material from the article is largely based on Fred Adolphus' article "Confederate Clothing of the Houston Quartermaster Depot," Military Collector and Historian 48: 171-180. I believe you will be getting a copy of that soon. :)

Your Servant,
Eric Fair

Eric,

Fred Adolphus' article ROCKS!!! Thanks Comrade!

Chad Teasley
CHAPs