1809/1822 Prussian Musket

[D Harrelson]

I'm considering the purchase of an 1822 cone-in-barrel conversion .75 caliber Prussian musket. Can't seem to find much on the net about these weapons except that there were a number used during the CW. Can anyone lead me to an area (or share information) that can provide me with some specifics? Any help would be greatly appreciated before I buy or die.

D Harrelson

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

Hmmm, these muskets were part of the European trash the Feds bought to keep them out of CS hands. Check out the biography called Marcellus Hartley: A Memoir, by Judith Howe. Marcellus Hartley was dispatched to Europe to procure arms for the Federal Ordnance Department. It contains correspondence from Hartley to Sec of War Stanton in the appendix which reads (in part) "...the South has agents purchasing arms...I think it my duty to prevent them from falling into their hands...If we succeed in shutting the Confederates off from a supply of arms they must succumb." This is October 1862. He initially balks at the Prussian guns at $7 a piece because they are larger bore than the US musket standard of .69 caliber, the size which he has been instructed to buy, but he ends up purchasing 50,000 of them anyway. For a frame of reference, Enfields were then running $11 from Belgium (Liege), $14.50 from London and $13.50 from B'ham. He refers to the Prussian muskets as "72/100", but some were actually up to .80 caliber. A few, maybe 5,000 of the first lot from Stettin were rifled and sighted. Then I believe of the additional Prussian arms he purchased from Berlin, about 20,000 were rifled. The rest were smoothbore. He also bought muskets in Vienna, but I believe those were the Austrian model 1842 smoothbore tubelocks.

These Prussian muskets did not prove popular arms with the men who got them. These were all second hand arms and had been converted (at least) to percussion, but they required a variety of non-standard size ammunition. The buyers sent to Europe were instructed not to purchase flintlocks, percussion locks only. There were already enough obsolete flintlocks laying around here that the US did not intend to import any more.

The South bought some of these dogs, too. IIRC there is a Potsdam identified to a Confederate soldier that was collected off the battlefield at Gettysburg.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

I believe the state of Illinois got a stash of some 10,000 of them.
The 81st Regt. received some and the 101st also I think. Also some soldiers doing guard duty around Alton, Ill.

Brass-mounted, right?

FWIW,
John Pillers
TSM

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

Brass hardware would distinguish the "typical" Prussian musket, however one of the challenges of trying to trace exactly what might have been included or who got what is that it was often not documented clearly on this end. The locks may have been marked differently, SUHL or Pottsdam or some other way. No distinctions were made during issuance (once the arms arrived) based on country of origin or typology. It was not a consideration. You will often see that companies were listed as having "muskets of foreign manufacture" or "US Model muskets of the old type" (whatever that means...1842 or 1816?) or "a mix of foreign and domestic" weapons.

In other words, in one sense we are really guessing what was lumped in as a "Prussian" musket in the lots that were purchased early in the war. It could have been a variety of similar muskets, hand made, in a variety of bore diameters. The Kaiser probably got a hearty chuckle after fobbing off those obsolete muskets from his scrap pile on Uncle Sam for the princely sum of $7 a piece. As soon as better weapons were produced, many of the European conversion muskets were either condemned or shipped west for US troops to use in the Sioux uprising in Minnesota.

Pedersoli makes a repro 1809 Prussian in flint that can be converted to percussion, if in theory you found the Prussian was the correct musket for your primary impression. It would be likely to be more correct in most details than the reproduction muskets most of us carry, and it would certainly stand out in the stacks.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

I'm considering the purchase of an 1822 cone-in-barrel conversion .75 caliber Prussian musket.

I am perplexed by the notion of a cone-converted Pottsdam/Prussion musket. As far as I know, those were converted prior to purchase by the US using a more rugged patent breech conversion, similar to the Lehman conversion used on US M1816 muskets.

Here's a link to a pic on Tim Prince's website of a typical Prussion conversion:

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product_image.php?imageid=597

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

A good point, I should have added that. The so-called cone in barrel conversion was less widely used than the more rugged bolster conversion on European arms, depending on the date, whether it was rifled/sighted and where the conversion was performed. The cone in barrel was also known as a "Belgian conversion" because of the French and Belgian (and other) smoothbore muskets converted that way at Liege.

However, the cone in barrel conversion would not normally be performed on a "rifled" musket due to the potential for weakening the barrel already made thinner by the rifling process. You will note the Prussian musket with the bolster conversion pictured in Wick's post (above) is rifled and sighted.

[tiger_rifles]

Re: 1809/1822 Prussian Musket

One more thing to consider might be a "resupply issue". If one soldier in the line has a 1822 and all others have 1842's, well they are all 69 smooth bores. Same as if one has an Enfield and all others have 1855 or 1861's.
But if there is one Potsdam, .79 cal in the ranks, where is this soldier getting his rounds from?

Years agao when I was living "Back East", I sold my Potsdam and original bayonet to a lad in a Unit were they ALL were getting the same muskets.
Ofcourse, this was back when a good, usable piece sold for $350!