Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

[Pvt.Tyler]

Would a Leather sling on a bulls eye canteen be common in 1863. Or would the cloth strap be more appropriate?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Cloth straps were more common but there are numerous surviving bullseye canteens supportedwith leather straps.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Hi,

Because the bulls eye canteen was the later war version, I would think that it would not have a leather sling. I was looking through pictures of originals, and I was unable to find a single leather sling on any bulls eye canteens. So I would go with a cloth sling for any reenactment in 1863 or later.

[brown]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Does anyone have a picture they could sharing showing the herringbone twill strap found on several originals bullseye canteen?

[Duff]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

It is my understanding that it depends on the depot the canteen came from.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Does anyone have a picture they could sharing showing the herringbone twill strap found on several originals bullseye canteen?

You'll find an excellent photograph in the form of Figure 6, on page 166 (II.30) in the article "A Canteen is a Canteen, or is it?" This is but one of the many useful articles in the Columbia Rifles Research Compendium, 2nd Edition.

[rmilstead]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

In his excellent article on Federal issue canteens in the Fall 1995 issue of the Journal of the Company of Military Historians, Earl Coates presents research that addresses this question from the perspective of the 4 Federal Depots that supplied canteens for the Quartermaster Department during the War. First, Coates points out that Leather straps were the standard used by the Army since the War of 1812. They were the standard for the "Pattern 1858" (smooth sided style) canteens turned out by the Philadelphia Depot in the pre war era for thr Regular Army. Coates indicates, however, that leather straps were for all practical purposes discontinued by all Depots by the Winter of 62/63 dispite the fact that they were still technically an allowed standard according to 1865 "Quartermaster Manual". The only other Depot besides Philadelphia known to provide canteens with leather straps was the New York City Depot. As a contract only procurement operation they apparantly allowed both leather and cloth in their contracts until late 1862 when cloth became the defacto standard. Cincinnati and St Louis, the other two Depots that supplied canteens, are not known to have used leather straps only cloth.
In terms of the so called "Bulls eye " pattern ("Pattern 1862"), these were only produced through the Philadelphia Depot. The shift from the smooth sided 1858 Pattern to the corregated 1862 Pattern in Philadelphia occured between July and September of 1862 and apparantly the majority of the canteens out of Philadelphia were 1862 pattern for the remainder of the War. Coates seems to imply, however, that even Philatelphia was still providing some of the 1858 Pattern after the beginning of 1863 on a Contract procurment basis.
My conclusion, therefore, based upon Coates research would be that perhaps a small number of 1862 pattern ("Bulls eye") may have left the Philadelphia Depot in the closing months of 1862 with leather straps but only a small percentage of the total production of such canteens would have been so outfitted. It is far more likely that 1862 Pattern canteens present in the 1863 time frame or afterward would have had cloth straps.

Dick Milstead
Hardaways Battery
Company of Military Historians

[Illinois Reb]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Take a look at the picture of 3 Confederate prisoners at Gettysburg (I do not have the image available to post, but it's the famous one of 3 figures standing/sitting on a fence). Look at the canteens of the man to the left and the man in the center. Both are "bullseye" canteens and (unless I need to have my eyes checked) the thick, dark straps on those canteens seem to be leather.

I agree that cloth may have been the most common strap used for the "bulllseye" pattern, but it was not the only type of strap used.

Rich Stonikas
Co. D 17th Mississippi Infantry

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Hi,

Here is a nother picture of a leather canteen strap on a bull's eye canteen.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Hi,

Here is a nother picture of a leather canteen strap on a bull's eye canteen.

These split leather straps are thought by most to be a CS item. It is one of those things where there is no evidence they were Federal issue but period pictures show Confederates using them. I wouldn't put one on a US used bullseye until some proof is found that they were US issue. However as with most everything else associated with the use of various equipment, there is always an exception.

Here are pictures of a smooth side canteen and a bullseye canteen with the split straps. The smooth side canteen may be a contractor copy but it is hard to tell.

[JustRob]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Back in 2001, the Horse Soldier was selling a bullseye canteen with a gutta percha strap documented to a Vermont soldier.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Just wondering??? At the "strap change" how many contracts for leather straps were still being filled and how many leather straps had been produced and were sitting in warehouses waiting to be used? Because of those two issues (and nobody knows the answers) it's impossible to put an exact cut off date on the change over. And, these were Army pogues. Who knows how many cases of canteens with leather straps were stacked willy nilly in some depot warehouse and issued whenever the guys in the warehouse got around to it.

You sure some enterprising soldier didn't split his strap with his pocket knife?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Just wondering??? At the "strap change" how many contracts for leather straps were still being filled and how many leather straps had been produced and were sitting in warehouses waiting to be used? Because of those two issues (and nobody knows the answers) it's impossible to put an exact cut off date on the change over. And, these were Army pogues. Who knows how many cases of canteens with leather straps were stacked willy nilly in some depot warehouse and issued whenever the guys in the warehouse got around to it.

That is the problem with saying after 62/63, canteens wouldn't have leather straps. No telling how many leather straps were still in transit or at the bottom of the barrel of canteen slings at the manufactures. I have seen bullseye canteens with remains of leather straps still attached. Not many and they are a distant minority compared with bullseye's with cloth straps.

You sure some enterprising soldier didn't split his strap with his pocket knife?

The split leather straps are a different width than the standard US leather strap and most are of much thicker leather.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

While we are on the subject of canteens, I just came across a book online that was apparently just published last fall, The Civil War Canteen by by Robert Jones and was curious if anyone had read the book yet and if it was worth ordering a copy.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Hi,

Thanks Mr. Mayo for correcting my thoughts on the split leather canteen strap. Also, thank you for posting those pictures of the 2 canteens, they are both very interesting.