Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

[Joe Walker]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Jim,

There used to be a Confederate used "bullseye" canteen with the split strap in the basement of the Fredricksburg museum. You may have seen it, or it could be gone.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Jim,

There used to be a Confederate used "bullseye" canteen with the split strap in the basement of the Fredricksburg museum. You may have seen it, or it could be gone.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

It seems wer'e deviating from talking Federal Issue Canteens and Slings now...

Speculation is that these "split-leather" canteen slings were some sort of CS issued canteen sling, as they appear on a handful of CS provenanced, Federal Canteens...and also appear in several images of dead Confederate Soldiers...the closure method on these is typical, a brass button stud, such as that seen on harness equipment/sword drags.

I suppose it's possible that the Blue brothers also used something similar...though I haven't seen any evidence or documentation to support this claim, beyond this being a Confederate practice.

Let's please get back on track, when discussing Federal Issue Canteens/Canteen slings.

Paul B.

[rmilstead]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

A previous post that suggested that somehow straps were “mixed and matched” such that leftover leather straps were being added to "bullseye" canteens coming from the Philadelphia Depot doesn’t really reflect the reality of the Federal contract system as it existed at least during the middle and latter periods of the War. Unfortunately I am not currently able to access and go over the Company article by Coates that discussed canteen production to verify this but it is my impression that contract canteens were ultimately delivered to the Union Depots with covers and straps after having been previously submitted for pre testing and approval by the Depot inspectors. Perhaps another Company member could check the article to verify. I believe therefore that the contractors to Philadelphia who were nearly all requesting to be allowed to delivered their canteens with cloth straps were in fact doing just that and straps were not added at the Depot from barrels that were sitting around. Certainly, beyond a certain point canteens produced at Philadelphia itself were not being sent out with leather straps as standard practice. What I do remember is that in the second half of 1862 where leather straps were being delivered with canteens, the Depots were requesting the switchover to cloth straps as quickly as possible for cost and availability reasons. The contention that there were large numbers of leather straps somehow "sitting around" to be used together with newly made "bullseye" (pattern1862) canteens coming out of the Philadelphia Depot is at best a stretch by early '63, which doesn't fit with the way the Depot system was working by that time. The Federal Quartermaster system while certainly not pure in terms of sticking to specific pattern wasn't exactly random either. Sure, there are examples of strange variations but they are far from the rule. Philadelphia, the only Depot producing or contracting the pattern 1862 had been an established shop for many years and pretty consistent in its output although in fairness Coates does, I believe, discuss some differences in the number of rings on some of the contracted canteens. The original question asked, however, was how likely was it to find "bullseye" canteens with leather straps in the mid war period (1863). I believe that the answer still is that it was not very likely although a very small number may have slipped through during the transition period (late 1862). That is, by far and away the vast majority of pattern 1862 canteens issued out of Philadelphia during the War had cloth straps. Except for captured canteens used by Confederate troops with replaced straps and perhaps Union field modifications (gutta percha strap?) that is what was being used. Idle speculation about leftover straps on canteens sent out by Philadelphia on manufactured or contracted canteens is just that, pure speculation without any factual basis.

Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Battery
Company of Military Historians

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Any chance a fellow might have simply kept the nice leather strap from his old canteen with the bullet hole in it, and put it on the new "bulls eye" in place of the cloth strap it came with?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Leather Canteen slings on bulls eye pattern canteen 1863

Any chance a fellow might have simply kept the nice leather strap from his old canteen with the bullet hole in it, and put it on the new "bulls eye" in place of the cloth strap it came with?

Anything is possible. Present day research is informative up to a point but it is impossible to insure that 100% of the period documentation has been studied. As soon as you say "It was that way because the research says so." an item or items will appear that contradicts that research. Then you always have period field modifications as another factor. IMO it would be OK for a bulls eye canteen or two in a large group of soldiers to have leather straps but it must be remembered that cloth straps were the norm.

I have been looking at canteens for quite a while and often you come across one or two that don't fit what is perceived as the norm whether it is leather slings, jack chains, number of rings, body shape, etc. As an example: For years many were convinced that bulls eye canteens did not have holes for the jack chain because they came with strings. I have a picture of two bull’s eye canteens with a hole for the jack chain on my US Canteen web page. Is this common? No, but it is an exception to the general rule and out of the vast numbers of canteens issued there must have been more with this configuration.

Getting back to leather slings on bulls eye canteens. I have a picture of one on my page with a leather sling. It is not US issue and looks like it was added by the soldier. There is no way to tell if it was added during wartime or post but you can take a look at it. My personal opinion is that is a post war sling because of the lack of wear patterns.