.69 Cal Ammo Box

[Carl A Clink]

I'm building some 69 cal ammo boxes and need to know the color red used for painting the boxes. Can anyone help me out? I have the Columbia Rifles Compendium but it only gives a color for .58 cal rifle ammo boxes.
Thanks
Carl A Clink

[1stMaine]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Comrade,

A perusal of threads regarding this subject, using the search dunction on this site, should answer the question you pose.

Respects,

[Carl A Clink]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Tim
Thanks for the info. I found out some info and now know how to use the search on the site. But I still havn't found a color of red or blue to use. The Compendium has a color of green for .58 rifle Sherwin Williams Ripe Olive. I know that color could be different from box to box. I don't want to show up at an event and have some one say that the color is to light of to dark. Any advise is helpful
Thanks
Carl A Clink

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Hi,


You might want to go under www.charliesboatworks.com . He sells all sorts of ammunition crates, so he would most likely know the answer to your question. Hope this information helps.

[1stMaine]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Carl,

The colour of the box depends ypon the type of ball it was meant to hold, OE: Elongated ball, round ball, or buchshot.

Ekongated ball + Kead Colour
Round ball_=Blue
Buckshot= Red
Blanks= Olive

I am convinced that the "Buckshot & Buck and Ball" cartridge are both packed into red painted boxes. I derive this from the fact that the section under which both "Round Ball" & "Buckshot" columns are listed are both under the header of "Round Ball".

One other thing to keep in mind is that these paints are all oil-based, and of a glossy finish when new. They would, of course, suffer some loss of gloss and fading when exposed to the elements, but usually they were under canvas in the wagons, or in magazines awaiting transport, or box dars from the arsenals to the depots. This, most any wear would be minimal until after the rounds were issued, or placed into the wagons and jostled about.

The packing boxes are also of slightly differing sizes, based upon the type of cartridge they are to hold. Although not noticable to the naked eye at several feet, if the various types are placed together, the differences would be seen.

Respects,

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

The color also depends on which arsenal the rounds are coming from and which Government is having the rounds produced.

[1stMaine]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

The color also depends on which arsenal the rounds are coming from and which Government is having the rounds produced.

Chris,

Woyld you mind expanding on that answer a mite? To mu knowleadge the CS Ordnance manual was, like the CS Army Regulations, a copy of the Federal manual, with very monir changes (say from "US" to "CS", etc) and the dimensions and colours stayed the same. I do know that some CS boxes were unpainted, save for lettering, but that was an exception to the rule, rather than the norm and was more of a time/place/ issue.

Respects,

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

If you look at the .69 buck and ball Columbus Labs. box in the Columbus Naval Museum, it is a dark green. If you look at an Augusta Enfield box, it has stencils and labels and is unpainted. There were even Watervliet .58 & .69 boxes that had paint/non-paint variations as well as Frankford arsenal.
Also, remember that construction methods varied. From two-piece tops/bottoms, dovetails, box (or finger) joints, cut nails or screws, etc. For a "generic" box with few wood skills, the simplest box- by far- is going to be one with butt joints and cut nails (4d 1.5" should do you well) and six slotted (#8 3/4"[for non-functioning; 1.5" for functioning]) screws in the lid.

[1stMaine]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Chris,


Thanks for the response. I am familiar with the boxes stated, but thought you might be refering to a published source or regs.

I use 5 short screws on the boxes I have, with one longer one. That way, it acts like a sort of pivot. I can "open" the box without losing the lid, and stoll have it remain on top when transporting, it etc, without having to use battens on the lid. :)

Respects,

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

I use 3/8" thick battens on the lid due to pine's tendency to cup and twist. They're not so obtrusive that way and the battens stabilize it somewhat.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

I have a question that fits in here. Although the dimensions are given by the QM Manual 1861 I am not sure ife they are interior or exterior 15.5x11.75x6.75
for cal. 69 round ball cartrisges. Can anybody help me there?

[1stMaine]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Comrade,

Regarding the wooden packing boxes for ammunition, all dimensions, unless otherwise noted, are "interior" dimensions.

You will have to modify that, of course, according to the wood you can procure, since the wood from our mills tofay, unless ductom made, is thinner. Back then, 1" clear white pine was actually 1" think, not 3/4" thick. :)

Respects,

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Comrade,

Regarding the wooden packing boxes for ammunition, all dimensions, unless otherwise noted, are "interior" dimensions.

You will have to modify that, of course, according to the wood you can procure, since the wood from our mills tofay, unless ductom made, is thinner. Back then, 1" clear white pine was actually 1" think, not 3/4" thick. :)

Respects,

While this is generally true...like many things there are no absolutes...

After personally examining 2 original Ammunition Crates from the Richmond Arsenal ca. 1864 the wood was somewhere in between 3/4 inch and 1 inch.

It's possible that this is due to shrinkage, but I believe it to be much more likely that the "rough-cut" may have been a true 1 inch, and when the wood was planed to make smoother, wood was taken off yielding a final product somewhere in between.

**Acquiring rough cut lumber does not require a custom order...plenty of mills are around and are more than willing to sell lumber in the rough. I know of one-such mill at Xion Crossroads, VA. This is just East of Charlottesville and within spitting distance of the gas stations right of I-64.

Question: I know early on Federal Ammunition Crates, and possibly CS Richmond Crates use dovetailed joints & box-finger joints...does anyone know when the practice was stopped and the use of butt-joints became widespread?

Question 2: Is there a book out there that details various Ordnance Boxes and Ammunition Crates? Is there an expert out there on this subject?
Paul B.

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Your best book(s) on various boxes/ammunition for Federal arsenals is going to be "Roundball to Rimfire" with many different cartridges and boxes in it. No detailed dimensions of boxes but there are pictures, none the less. I don't have my copy in front of me but I'll post the ISBN number later. There is three books in this series with the second being on carbines and the like.

As far as the switch from dovetails to butt joints, there is no definite that I know of. I would imagine that as the war progressed that the nails would be needed for other things. Their use in disposable boxes would have slackened and consequentially you would have seen the rise of dovetail and finger joints later in the war. This probably would have probably happened more in the southern arsenals than in the northern ones, of course.

There are no "experts" on this subject that I know of at this time. I'm into measuring them myself.:wink_smil

[Carl A Clink]

Re: .69 Cal Ammo Box

Wow lots and lots of help. Thank you! NOW here is another Question. From which arsenal would Ft Union in New Mexico have gotten most of there ammo from? I know this St. Louis was the main life line to the fort. Could Calif have sent goverment stores there? I throw this out to you.
Thank you
Carl A. Clink