Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

[Barclay]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

Greg,

Excellent info.

One thing to keep in mind several of the military contractors in England that supplied the Confederacy had their own blockade runners devoted exclusively to shipping military uniforms, equipment, ordinance, etc.

For example, Peter Tait and Co. of Limerick had 3 blockade runners devoted exclusively to shipping Tait goods to the Confederacy.

Blockade Runners dedicated to meeting the needs of the general public consumer in the South (i.e. the wealthy that could afford such high prices), did have to also include military items as part of their cargo. But, blockade runners for military contractors in England, France, and Austrian, did not have to likewise dedicate part of their cargo to civilian items.

I do not have the citation with me at work, but I will dig it up at home.

Great discussion.
-Bret Sumner

[Barclay]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

Greg - Also - maybe we should segregate the blockade runner debate into two components: (1) Civilian Goods; and (2) Military Goods. I think the analysis for both for the most part completely different.

For example, the Confederate purchasing agents workding for the CS Quartermaster Department in England negotiated and paid for military goods up front via cotton, CS bonds, gold, and other creative forms of financing and debt.

In contrast, general consumer goods were paid upon arrival at the CS port, if at all.

Also - regarding the speculation - I should have been more clear - I was calling for general citation and documentation to all members on the forum posting on subject matters where there have been substantial scholarship and documentation. You provided excellent documentation and I am appreciative.

Many thanks,
Bret Sumner

[SCTiger]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

Thanks Bret;

I was a little steamed at you. I thought you were implying that my whole line of discussion was unscholastic. I appreciate your info and I have learned much from this. I should have stayed away fron the gear and kept with the general civilian theme, that while the stores and docks of the CSA ports were filled with exotic stores, the citizens of the South were were experiencing unimaginable hardship.

I was struck by the fact, that if the BR's were loaded with additional military gear instead of "fine brandy", the suffering of the CS soldier would have been a lot less. Provided that the gear was paid for and transported to the field.

Anyways I hope that any living historian will have a better story behind their "import" gear, whether it's a Peter Tait jacket or a bottle of bubbly. Instead of just stating "my cartridge box or hat came through the blockade." I would give a glimpse on what that really meant.

I would like to see more stats for the April, 1863 to May, 1865 time frame. A good ratio of imported gear to domestic gear would go a long way toward helping us determine "how much" imported gear could be seen in any given unit and how did the CS government pay for that gear versus the home made equippage. I don't believe for example that every Tom, Dick and Harry should have an imported blanket or knapsack for example, except in the cases where the entire unit was documented to have such.

Thanks for the information and as I find more specific references I will post them to your excellent thread.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

I asked my grand-dad what field jacket he was issued in WW2 and he simply said ''The one they gave me.''

(Beyond the company or regimental quartermaster.) I don't think many Confederate soldiers really cared or ever gave any thought as to where their uniforms came from, much less who made them . I believe they had more pressing issues to worry about.

Why not just say''I put my name on a paper and that nice fellow with the gold sleeves gave it to me''.

Don't you think maybe we know far more about their supply system than the average Reb did?

But, this topic certainly is great fodder for us.

[Barclay]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

Greg -

I provide stats on the ratio of imported shoes to CS domestically produced shoes that were issued to the CS army by the Confederacy in the other thread I started on in this forum regarding 1863-65 CS Imports and Blockade bibliography.

I will see what else I can dig up on imports vs. CS domestic production stats regarding uniforms and equipage.

Part of the problem with obtaining this info via examination of original depot logs at the National Archives is that the Depot clerks usually did not distinguish between import vs. domestic uniforms or gear when they recorded/logged in the shipping books the items the Depot shipped to the field for issuance.

-Bret Sumner

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

''If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.''
George S. Patton

[SCTiger]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

Bret:

I appreciate your work and I will keep my eyes peeled with our Augusta Arsenal project. It may come to so much guess work or a formula on "how many" shoes any one factory could produce versus the number of imports.

Maybe some additional information will surface. I know it may sound to some like were nit-picking the details, but I feel that good discussions and research gives us a better view of 19th Century life and improves our impression overall.


To Garrison:

I am sure the common soldier didn't know every detail of his equipment, but I am very sure that he knew about blockade runners, the effects of inflation, the starvation on the homefront, his pay and uniform issues. Most would have had an opinion on the politics and economic situation of the day.

If we all reach the same conclusion after evaluating all the evidence available, thats called the "scientific method." It doesn't mean we will agree on the conclusions, we agree on the facts. It doesn't mean that we are thinking the same. If you believe the world is flat or sea monsters terrify our shipping, then you are allowed to think that, but it contradicts all known information.

BTW General Patton was a dedicated student of military history and was probably the most historically grounded General the US ever had. I think he would approve of a indepth analysis of how the South supplied its troops.
It's not stitch counting, it's reconstructing a war time society that existed 140 years ago. There is a lot we can learn.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

''If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.''
George S. Patton

I hope that all of you involved in this set of posts realize that this was meant as a compliment. My dad, Byron Beall, owns Tidelands Archaeology here in Wilmington and he has it enscribed on a placard in his office.

[SCTiger]

Re: Deprivation in a land of plenty CSA 1863-65

In that case bravo! Old blood and guts would be proud!