French Knapsacks

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Last ones information of Rougeaud,
According to my knowledge, France delivered 10 000 complete dresses of "chasseurs à pieds" in the USA (shako, leather, forage cap, jacket, baggy pants and complete equipments) notably in 62th, 82th and 83th Pennsylvania volonteers, 18th massachussets, 49th and 72th New York.
Seen the quantity of delivered effects everything has of be supposed to be for the supply there (new material and dropout, poor quality manufacturing for the export).
Given that the bag has a lid in skin of veal (which lost these hairs in time) for me it is the model of French origin that has sudden repairs (replacement of the back and movement of braces on the height of the flap) and which finished that career in the USA.
Otherwise, to complete with ours “Quintran Maximilien”, roll 384, it is of the 1st battalion, the 4th company.
I looked, “Quintran” it is localized in the “Bouches du Rhône” South of France between 1830-60.

[Charles Heath]

Re: French Knapsacks

"...France delivered 10 000 complete dresses of "chasseurs à pieds" in the USA (shako, leather, forage cap, jacket, baggy pants and complete equipments) notably in 62th, 82th and 83th Pennsylvania volonteers, 18th massachussets, 49th and 72th New York.

William,

Although not specific to the knapsack discussion, if you can hunt up Marc Riddell on this forum or via email, he once had a wealth of information concerning the 83rd PVI, and their various items of somewhat unusual issue clothing. His documentation may yield yet a few more clues.

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Thank you for information, it's effectively a good idea also for Joe Blunt
whom will find maybe with him supplementary answers on French Knapsacks
, in the middle of the materials delivered by France.
One thousand Thanks. ;)

Kind regards.

William

[elcid01]

Re: French Knapsacks

[QUOTE=Mcouioui;102585] According to my knowledge, France delivered 10 000 complete dresses of "chasseurs à pieds" in the USA (shako, leather, forage cap, jacket, baggy pants and complete equipments) notably in 62th, 82th and 83th Pennsylvania volonteers, 18th massachussets, 49th and 72th New York.


Sir,
Just courious as to more details on this statement. When was this? where is your documentation? With a Questionable equipage such as this, primary sources are critical in the assessment of the revelancy of this kanpsack.

Sources are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance....

Cheers

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

I question, because as you certainly read it, I am not the author of this message, it is a friend (Rougeaud) specialist of the French army which wrote it, I ask him for his sources and give them to you... ;)

[elcid01]

Re: French Knapsacks

That would be helpful thanks!

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Then,

First source, the French national archives, we are try with a friend historian to consult the parts referents in the French exports towards the USA in 1861 for these 10000 uniforms and we shall make an article on this subject on AC.
Secondary source, Echoes of Glory, (Union volume) pages 91, 148 and 149.
I have not more information for the moment and you see me sorry :(, we look and still look ;)

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: French Knapsacks

I've posted these photos before in a different thread, but they might be helpful to the discussion. Both are the examples on display at the Atlanta History Center.

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

I found that as secondary source.

Here is what says Todd:

On August 9th, 1861 the federal quarter master ordered 10 000 uniforms of Chasseurs à pied "Complet equipment suit" ? to M Alexis Godillot of Paris. Uniforms arrived to the USA in November and were distributed in the army.
It included: "a blue jacket with yellow braid and yellow worsted epaulets , medium blue pants with yellowish leather greaves and white leggings, black leather cap with brass plate and black cocks feather plume, white metal buttons"
We do not know exactly which regiments have recept these uniforms but little probably. When the order was made he was not taken into account the differences of size between French and the Americans and when uniforms arrived they were generally too small.
1 000 were distributed in the 83rd pennsylvania which used them during the winter 61/62. A sending made for the Missouri had returned on March 25th with the following comment: " the French stationery were of the best quality and the best style but completely too small for our”
Apparently the rest of the uniforms of Chasseurs stayed on the arms of the quartermaster!:D

For Troiani:

US Quartermaster general Montgomery Meigs ordered 10 000 uniforms of Chasseurs Clodhopper (supplier of the French army). The order arrived in the end of November, 61.
It included all that a soldier needed, of the uniform with shoulder straps up to the blue cotton tie by way of 2 handkerchiefs. The equipment was included including a kanpsack in tanned skin and one "sac la petite" ( In French in the text) containing 5 brushes, one limps with needles etc....
What regiments was use this uniform? The question was resolved by a competition of drill and they are three regiments of the division of the general Porter (AOP) who took him.
Among 3, the 18th Massachusetts, 62nd and 83nd pennsylvania regrettably, story of size, it is too small...
There were all the same big sizes in the lot but it seems that the American soldiers did not like these uniforms too much complicated for them!
The whole was stored in Washington and the 18th Mass never used these uniforms in the fight. It seems that elements of these dresses are later used in the war...
Canteens French 1858 were also supplied (1 liter) as well as shakoes 1860 with green plume (?) while the pompom of green service stayed in the stores of the QM.

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Rougeaud, tells me to say to you that if you need documentations on French equipment, he has many documentations, then do not hesitate to ask, he also has a superb period document on the equipment by Godillot.

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Extract of "Alexis Godillot" catalog 1860.



With the 1 liter 1852 Canteen, 1860 shako, 1854 Knapsacks, etc.

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Some interesting articles on the Web,

http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/pa62d/pa62d.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3905/is_199811/ai_n8826455

http://18thmass.com/blog/index.php?itemid=151

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Article appeared in the English CHS in 92/93 probably write by Ron Field or Richard Warren.

http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i56852_Article.jpg

[Spongebucket]

Re: French Knapsacks

William,
Outstanding posts. Again, thanks to you and Rougeaud. Wow, how a question on a knapsack and lead to now wanting to know more about the French contirbution to the war-machines (both US and CS). Did Godillot only make the one shipment? Or is this all we know? Were there other contractors that exported items to the States, or only during the beginning of the war.
Thank you again,
Joe Blunt

[Mcouioui]

Re: French Knapsacks

Patrick CCFF CWRT of France,

Says:
Nothing found to my part, the Americans have of to renew their order seen the failure of the first one!
It is nevertheless reasonable to think that 10 000 equipment which accompanied uniforms (Knapsacks, canteen, shoes...) used of the being somewhere the question it is, where and by whom???