Black soldiers in white units?

[Horace]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Thanks for pointing that out about the navy. I hadn't really thought through what black sailors were doing onboard ship, only about the fact that blacks and whites were on the same ships together. That makes the situation basically the same as it was in the army.
I'm also wondering, given the laxness of a volunteer army, if any of the black men listed as privates in white units carried a musket, or were just listed as such occasionally. The racist majority would seem to me to have put a stop to it.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

The Navy didn't desegregate its sailors until the New Era Navy (1880s). When that happened, minorities were removed from the ranks and limited to serving as cooks or stewards or laundrymen. Before that though, the USN was an integrated service and one could find a black petty officer commanding white seamen. The USN wasn't reintegrated until many years later.

[Marine Mike]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Navy desegregation was a depends. African-Americans made at one point was 23% of the Navy (18,000+), the Navy beginning the conflict at 5%. The Navy at it's high point had about 700 ships of all types. The distribution of Blacks depended on the ship with as little as 5% on capital ships like the U.S.S Kearsage to 100% on ships suppling provisions and coal. Their ratings and duties varied per experience. Men who spent a number of years in the whaling fleet would get higher rates and better positions in the blue water navy, tatoos were helpful. A few became gun captains which would indicate they were also trained in boarding pike, musket and cutlass.
The unskilled, many being branded contrabrand, were given duty and respect as per the stereotype of their time. The inability of most contraband to read reinforced the stereotype. That being said many contraband proved great value of their knowledge of local waters in the brown water navy.
I've included a link to the National Archive

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2001/fall/black-sailors-1.html

and the National Park Service.

http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/sailors_index.html

Mike Stein
U.S. Marine Guard

[guad42]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Maybe not too related, but while we're on the topic of the Navy, I seem to remember that a black sailor was "pressed" into service aboard the CSS Shenandoah in 1864 (?)...and somewhat reluctantly because he had apparently once served in the USN. I wonder then, how many African-Americans might have served in the CSN?

-Sam Dolan
1st Texas Inf.

[Marine Mike]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

There was a David White that was impressed to serve the officers mess on the Alabama. I don't remember which ship he was captured on but recall it was early in the Alabama's carerr. He was among those drowned when the ship went down after its fight with the Kearsarge. But I'd be interested in what you can find on the Shenandoah. It's possible because of it's attacks on the whaling fleet.

Mike Stein
U.S. Marine Guard

[guad42]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Mike,

I cannot quite remember what I read about the black sailor aboard the Shenandoah, though I did read it in one of the two books that were out on the subject back in '06 and '07.

-Sam Dolan
1st Texas Inf.

[Charlie Newman]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

i was reading and over 9,000 black soliders were in the Union Navy

[David Fox]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

A point: the Civil War Union volunteer regiments were not the people for whom the U.S. Army recruitment regulations were initially promulgated. In the emergency of '61 and '62, plenty of men who had little or no command of English, who had numerous birthdays since turning 35, or who hadn't shaved yet openly joined volunteer organizations. To add to the "colour" mix, northern Indians joined in numbers. The Regulars MAY have remained simon-pure, but not the bulk of the forces. As to the Confederacy, Louisiana units sometimes drilled to French commands and the Confederate Calendar a few years ago illustrated a Mexican-American. Somewhere I've seen an Oriental.... And don't get me started on General Stand Watie.
I am sceptical of the current modest flood of wish-dreaming putting blacks into Confederate ranks. Many servants (many who ran away at an early opportunity, many who were loyal and some who shouldered a musket in the heat of battle), the odd mascot, the New Orleans free black unit which offered its services in '61 (apparently declined), that elusive unarmed black unit drilling in Richmond in the war's last days, yes; but as for signed-up, paid as soldiers and issued a musket, I'm from Missouri on that. Just as a few woman disguised their identity and campaigned, a few blacks (by then-legal definition) passing for white may have donned grey too.

[Indianabugles]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

I am so glad I mentioned the navy, this stuff is priceless. I never realized that it was so in depth and even in the Navy was not as clear cut as it first seemed. Anyone know the designation of the two Black regiments raised by the CS, left behind, who became Union., or what unit they became/joined?
(Richmond I think)

[Mgreer]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

I believe the Navy thought that way because at that point in time you sailing was a skilled job that not every one could do and many of the jobs that went along with the sea. Unlike the Army where most ppl can be trained relativly easily.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Black Sailors

To add to the general fund of knowledge from my friend Marvin's post...

The US Navy was charging full steam ahead from the Age of Sail and Wooden Ships with Iron Men into the Age of Steam and eventually the Dreadnoughts/Battleships. The regulations were only incrementally changed before and during the Civil War to reflect the addition of Engineering Officers and Ratings to work the steam plants and many of the old devices of the Age of Sail were in full force. The Navy had a huge expansion and although vessels were outfitted in Naval Yards under Naval Regulations, once that ship put to sea and was on blockade duty or some other station it was the sole responsibility and perview of the Captain.

So... how did 9,000 some odd Black Sailors join the Navy. Many applied for positions on ships in the Northern Cities, similiarly to how Amry volunteers were recruited, each ship's Captain had to recruit sailors to fill his ship's company before he could put to sea. Duty in the Navy was the only means available to a Freeman to serve until units like the 54th MASS and eventually the USCT's were formed in late 1862 to 1863. If you had a skill, it was even easier and you could often sign on to a ship immediately into a skilled rating like Yeoman, Blacksmith, Sailmaker. One benefit of signing on to the Navy was steady work and at least the chance of being returned to your home port. Fishing was a seasonal occupation in many cases and Merchantmen took you from home for extended periods.

Once on station the only way to fill losses in the crew was to take on locals. In the case of US Ships in Southern Waters, Contrabands and Freemen would be enlisted onto Navy Ships to fill vacancies by their Captains. In many cases these could be unskilled men, allowing the sailors with expereince to move into the technical ratings. There were 'Schoolmasters' and the larger vessels who's duty it was to educate the midshipmen (future officers) and the crew to take on greater responsibilities.

That is a long discussion, sorry. To sum up, the Navy was the only means for a Freeman to serve at the start of the war, it was a technical job and those with skill could sign on very easily and with the presence of the Navy in southern waters, it was a means for Freemen and Contrabands to find employment and escape the situations they were in in the Confederacy.

[Mgreer]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

To add to Pete's point there were about 30,000 blacks who served in the Union Navy. All of who served on ships side by side to their white counterparts.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

To add to Pete's point there were about 30,000 blacks who served in the Union Navy. All of who served on ships side by side to their white counterparts.

Side-by-side indeed Mister Greer as shipmates should be and in all ratings from Landsman to Boatswain and every one in between.

Where'd I get 9,000 from? I can be silly at times and you are absolutely correct. On a side note, the US Marines did not enlist any blacks during the Civil War or the 19th Century for that matter, whereas the Union Army eventually had upwards of 250,000 in the segregated USCT Regiments.

One thing to include in this discussion is that the Navy was a means to upward mobility for all minorities in the 19th Century. Skills learned in the Navy, were directly applicable to future employment in the fishing, merchant and whaling fleets as well as indirectly applicable to a dozen landside industries.

[David Fox]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Re: recruitment of Blacks into the 19th Century U.S. Navy. Our Navy, like pretty-much everyone else's, tended to copy the British Senior Service. British ships had long included all manner of nationalities and colours in their musters. The only caveat: no Black sailor, merchant or naval, cared to dock at Charleston, South Carolina prior to The War. There the local authorities routinely locked-up in jail any Black sailor who dared come ashore to stretch his sea legs.

[Mgreer]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Just an FYI there was a slave who enlisted in the 111th Illinois and served as a stretcher-bearer and died doing his duty. His name was Austin Gilmore.

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/192557/3/MARIETTA-Historian-identifies-Unknown-Soldiers