Black soldiers in white units?

[Dusty Merritt]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072301358.html

Interesting article. Juanita Patience Moss, author of "The Forgotten Black Soldiers in White Regiments During the Civil War," claims at least 2,000 black men served in white Federal units.

"Moss's great-grandfather, Crowder Pacien, escaped from slavery at 18 and enlisted with the 103rd Regiment of Pennsylvania, a white Union Army division. He joined as a cook on Jan. 1, 1864, in Plymouth, N.C. He was discharged in June 1865 as a private."

I've heard of black cooks in white regiments, but does his promotion to private imply he ended up in a combat role? Moss says Pacien & at least 12 other black men fought in the Battle of Plymouth.

I'm quite interested to read this book. Anyone else ever encounter evidence of black troops in white units?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Hallo!

IMHO, pretty "ambiguous" research and a flawed data-gathering technique.

The article seems to drift between operationalizing "serve" and "fought."
Meaning, serving as cook, servant, laborer, etc., in a White unit is not quite the same as shouldering arms in the ranks in combat.

And, I have a problem with the concept of looking at rosters (how many at that?) and "making" men Black as a result of the descriptions. For example, if we went by say black hair and darker complexion... my father (an "Alpine German") would qualify as a Black.

IMHO, an interesting research question, but neither the very short news article or the research methodology makes or breaks the premise/question/hypothesis.

Curt

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

The 39th New York (they, of course, being the UN of the AoP) lists Frank Cosey of Co. H and Sam Lewis of Co. K as being of color. Cosey, 18, was a sailor from Boston. He transferred to the 117th USCT in March, 1865. Lewis, 23, was from Culpeper, VA, and died of disease on August 6. 1863.

[Mgreer]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Marc is correct there were a few blacks that served in the 39th New York. Check out http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...aldi-guard.htm

I also attended a conference on USCT and black civilians during the war, and there was a woman there who had documentation on her ancestor who ran into federal lines early in the war and at some point was promoted to pvt and served if not the rest of the war most of the war with the unit. She said she would write a book about it but so far i am not sure if she has finnished it.

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

I remember reading in a book about the Iron Brigade that one of there regiments (Minnesota I think) had a black serving in the ranks just like everyone else. The book stated that being mid-westerners they were more concerned with a persons qualities than with the color of their skin.

[Indianabugles]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

If I am not mistaken, then the US navy was, and had been for a while prior to hostilities, taking on men of colour. Would this extend to this discussion or is it just limited to Infantry units.
Would they have been part of any Naval armed detachment alongside whites?

[106th PVI]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Elijah Onley served with the 42d Penna. He was an escaped slave from Maryland and "adopted" the Pennsylvania men. He became Lt Colonel Edwin Irvin's servant and fought in the battleline with the soldiers. There are many accounts and the story/ photos of him in "History of the Bucktails 42d Regiment of the Line" by Thompson & Rausch and "42d, 149th & 150th Pennsylvania Bucktails Photo Album" by Patrick Schroeder.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Army Regulations forbade the recruitment of nonwhite soldiers in Para. 929:

"Any free white male person above the age of eighteen and under thirty-five years, being at least five feet three inches high, effective, ablebodied, sober, free from disease, of good character and habits, and with a competent knowledge of the English language, may be enlisted."

But these restrictions, especially regarding the English language (e.g., in the 9th Ohio and 32nd Indiana), seem to have fallen by the wayside for the volunteer service during the war.

Kim Crawford's book on the 16th Michigan mentions a black soldier serving in the ranks of Company B during the Peninsula Campaign.

http://www.morningsidebooks.com/cgi/bookshop/shelf.cgi?cat=1&book=470B

A Grand Army of Black Men has a chapter titled "Black Soldiers in White Regiments."

http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Army-Black-Men-African-American/dp/0521439981#reader

In addition, several "white" regiments accepted American Indian recruits, including Penobscots in Maine and, in Michigan, a contingent of Chippewas who violated the Regs both racially and linguistically:

Very few of them had any knowledge of the English language, which made it very hard to drill them like the other soldiers, and they often rebelled in many little things they were required to do, and had to be handled with soft gloves, so to speak, in order to keep them in line with the other soldiers. The idol of their company was Big Tom, an Indian Sergeant of immense proportions, and it was thru this Sergeant that the officers of the company were able to handle them.

Charles Bibbins, in Raymond Herek's These Men Have Seen Hard Service

There's faint evidence that some of the provisional units of government employees called out in the defense of Washington in July, 1864 were integrated, though others were raised on segregated lines with black employees detailed as teamsters or formed up under white officers and NCOs. It's something I'm still looking into.

[Mgreer]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Michael has a great point. What the regs say and what the troops did were to different things.

[Horace]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

As far as he navy goes, my understanding is that it had already been integrated for decades, if not since the beginning, due at least to the limited space on ships.

It seems that most of the 11th Corps would be in violation of regulations regarding 'a competent knowledge of the English language.'
There were 6 Iroquois in the 86th New York Infantry.

I don't want to drift from the focus of this thread, but the last two examples reinforce the theme that the regulations weren't necessarily always being paid attention to...

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

I should probably add in defense of the Regulations that the army adapted them to the demands of war on a continental scale in several ways. Later revisions include such things as providing for recruiting ads in German newspapers, removing "Christian" from the requirements for chaplains (thus allowing units like Company C of the 82nd Illinois access to an official rabbi), and establishing the USCT.

My favorite quote on the Regulations comes from T. W. Higginson in an article in The Atlantic Monthly called "Regular and Volunteer Officers" (September 1864):

How many good volunteer officers will admit, if they speak candidly, that on entering the service they half believed the “Army Regulations” to be a mass of old-time rubbish, which they would gladly reedit, under contract, with immense improvements, in a month or two, — and that they finally left the service with the conviction that the same book was a mine of wisdom, as yet but half explored! ... Many a form which at first seems to the volunteer officer merely cumbrous and trivial he learns to prize at last as almost essential to good discipline; he seldom attempts a short cut without finding it the longest way, and rarely enters on that heroic measure of cutting red-tape without finding at last that he has entangled his own fingers in the process.

But you know me, Todd. I'm a big fan of red tape. :)

[508preach]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Also you got to remember in some parts of the country they did not consider a person of color to even be an American Citizen freedman or not and this still was prevelant especially in the south up to the 1940s, I had the opportunity today actually to see original arrest records in South Carolina from the 40s and the black males were listed as follow.

Race: Black

Nationality: NEGRO

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Hallo!

IMHO, the "lessons" of the Civil War were largely lost and forgotten until well after WWII.

While there are a few exceptions, IMHO...

Historically, the Navy was hardly integrated. NUG, blacks could only serve at shore installations or on harbor craft, being relegated to messmen, stewards, and laborers on combat sea craft until April 7, 1942 when the Navy (on paper) opened its "general service."
The Coast Guard got the jump on the Navy but allowing other than Black messmen, and then putting Blacks on combat shipss.
The Marines first admited Black recruits after May 1, 1942.

The model for Navy integration was the destroyer escort U.S.S. Macon commissioned in March of 1944 with mostly White officers and Black crew.
When launched in 1943, it was nicknamed "Eleanor's Folly" for the First Lady's integration views.

Others' mileage will vary...

CHS
Context is everything Mess

[Old Cremona]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

I think Curt is referring to the USS Mason, DE 529.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Black soldiers in white units?

Hallo!

Yes, thanks for the correction. U.S.S. Mason.

The Macon was either a zeppelin or a cruiser.

Curt
Typograpically Challenged Mess