"Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

[Dale Beasley]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Boy Hank,

You got some way with the English language. Unfortunately, it's just one of many languages spoken in this area. Terms like "Who Dat?" and "Where ya at", "Make Grocery's, are phrases common to this area.

Have to get ready to "Make Church", It's always my pleasure, No?

[Hank Trent]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Terms like "Who Dat?" and "Where ya at", "Make Grocery's, are phrases common to this area.

That's exactly what I said in my first paragraph.

So what's your evidence it was a special shout/chant/cheer in the 1860s or before?

I don't think you have any.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Hallo!

It might would make another discussion post on how words and popular slang type expressions made their way into (what appears to be) popular use to the point of being widespread and having staying power.
Especially prior to modern TV ads or Hoolywod movies.

Or to point out that even folks in the past thought it noteworthy such as in the 1785 A CLASSICAL DICTONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE, or the 1811 LEXICON BALATRONICUM: A DICTIONARY OF BUCKISH SLANG, UNIVERSITY WIT, AND PICKPOCKET ELOQUENCE, or the 1859 A DICTIONARY OF MODERN SLANG which had new editions in 1860 and 1864.

But IMHO we need to be on guard in not taking what might just be phonetic
representations of accented speech and making something widely "popular" out of it in the Period.

Curt
I see nuthink! I know nuthink! Mess

[Hank Trent]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

It might would make another discussion post on how words and popular slang type expressions made their way into (what appears to be) popular use to the point of being widespread and having staying power.
Especially prior to modern TV ads or Hoolywod movies.

There's a great chapter in Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds on that. Here's a link to the first page of the chapter, but it really starts to pick up steam on the next page.

The author is referring to London of course, but he marvels just as we do about how certain catch-phrases would spread, rise to prominence and fade away, only to be replaced by others. Some of the phrases jumped the ocean and had staying power, like "shocking bad hat," while it seems others never made it out of England or died quickly. On p. 247, he even notes when the obsession with Jim Crow and blackface hit London.

It seems to be an innate part of human behavior, but in my experience, it's something that's hard to reenact and produce the same effect. No matter how conscientiously one shouts "Here's your mule" or "come out of that hat" at a reenactment, it just doesn't have the same emotional impact today as it would back in the day when it was at its height. And, also, it's hard to turn off the emotional impact of today's current catch-phrases and hear them with no significance, if they had none in the 1860s.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Gentlemen,

I am almost wishing I had not made this post. It has aroused far more dissent and trouble than I could have ever imagined. I consider this story superbly unique and vastly interesting (on the date of its occurrence, no less)! I see and read it now as hindered by rambling and argumentative posts. This is truly a disappointment.

Next time I'll think twice before being the catalyst for possibilities such as these.

[Silas]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Sometimes threads go the way you want. Sometimes they don't.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

To expand upon what Silas says...

There is nothing wrong with your post, Jason (as I'm sure you know).

The debate ame when something was said and the perception was that it was in reference to modern sporting events. So a large degree of what has been discussed here (as you may have noticed) is unrelated to your post but rather trying to decipher if a phrase was in New Orleans, NYC, none of the above, or even around.

So fear not for posting, BUT, the moderators (new and old) are indeed reinvigorated to ensure that people are following all the rules from historical documentation to not being nasty-rude.

And as much as some forum members hate it this phrase: I will now sit down my moderating hat for now.

[JimKindred]

Re: "Fat Tuesday" in Williamsburg 148 yrs. ago...

Gentlemen,

I am almost wishing I had not made this post. It has aroused far more dissent and trouble than I could have ever imagined. I consider this story superbly unique and vastly interesting (on the date of its occurrence, no less)! I see and read it now as hindered by rambling and argumentative posts. This is truly a disappointment.

Next time I'll think twice before being the catalyst for possibilities such as these.

Jason,

You did nothing wrong. Unfortunately we have some long time problem children with bad attitudes that cause problems for everyone. This particular problem has been solved for the time being.