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I am working on a research paper looking at how a collective memory (or history) aided in the formation of Confederate nationalism. I am trying to find some evidence of Patrick Henry's famous "give me liberty or give me death" quote being used as a means to garner enthusiasm for the Confederacy. I know this is a very specific request but if anyone has information regarding this it would be greatly appreciated.
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Alan Prather
Co. L, Lone Star Rifles
1st Texas Vol. Infantry Rgmt.
Texas Brigade
Independent Rifles
"Mars is not an aesthetic god"
- General John B. Gordon
"I was not used to drink, but wanted to test gin as a fear tonic; so I took of the remedy freely...and when we were marched off, the most of one bottle was gone and the the bullets sounded the same old way."
- Pvt William Fletcher, 5th Texas
Honorary Captain of the Longbranch Division -
Re: Research Paper Help
Do you have any reason or evidence to believe that it was?Originally posted by aprather View Post
The reason I ask, is in my experience it's better to let your research guide your conclusions rather than your conclusions guide your research.Paul Calloway
Proudest Member of the Tar Water Mess
Proud Member of the GHTI
Member, Civil War Preservation Trust
Wayne #25, F&AM -
Re: Research Paper Help
Yeah thats a good point. I am basing my research on two collections of letters and the phrase 'liberty or death' is used in a letter I'm using. Id like to have a good secondary source to back up using it in the my paper.Alan Prather
Co. L, Lone Star Rifles
1st Texas Vol. Infantry Rgmt.
Texas Brigade
Independent Rifles
"Mars is not an aesthetic god"
- General John B. Gordon
"I was not used to drink, but wanted to test gin as a fear tonic; so I took of the remedy freely...and when we were marched off, the most of one bottle was gone and the the bullets sounded the same old way."
- Pvt William Fletcher, 5th Texas
Honorary Captain of the Longbranch DivisionComment
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Re: Research Paper Help
This oughta do. It's from a speech by South Carolina fire-eater John S. Preston to the Virginia convention in 1861, urging that state to secede.
Now, that being said... it's easier to find the quote used for--how shall I say?--the fringe element of the other side, because it was so obviously adapted to their goal.I, one of the humblest of these sons, have told my adopted brethren—I have promised them—that before the spring grass grows long enough to weave a chaplet of triumph, they will hear the stately tramp as of a mighty host of men—a sound as if the armies of destiny were afoot—and they will see floating above that host a banner, whose whole history is one blaze of glory, and not one blot of shame: and coming up from that host, they will hear one voice, ay, like their own, one voice only; the resounding echo of that voice which first thundered into the hearts of your god-like sires, "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and on that banner will be written the unsullied name of Virginia. The world knows her history, and knows no history above it in the niche of fame; and knowing it, none dare doubt where Virginia will be found when her own offspring, divine liberty and justice, call her to the fight. Have I promised too much in the name of our mother? In us the doubt would be worse than blasphemy. She will take her place in the front ranks. She will be, as she has been for one hundred years, the foremost of the world in the cause of liberty. She will stand here with her uplifted arm, not only as a barrier, but the guiding star to an empire, stretching from her feet to the tropics, from the Atlantic to the Pacific--grander in proportions, stronger in power, freer in right, than any which has preceded it; which will divide the rule of the Atlantic; be felt in the far-heaving waves of the Pacific; and will own the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean Sea. Linky.
So even though the quote came originally from Richmond, and Preston's speech used it in a perfect context to fire up the new Virginia convention, I suspect it may have been used more by the north than the south, overall.
Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.comHank TrentComment
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Re: Research Paper Help
Can you provide some documentation for that suppositionComment
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Re: Research Paper Help
I was just going over Mary Chesnut's Civil War and found citations for both "Henry, Patrick" and "Confederate States of America -- nationalism within, etc." So, that might be worth checking out.
I would also suggest looking at Richmond, Va. based texts written during the Civil War since Henry's "Give me liberty" speech was said at St. John's Church in March 1775. Off the top of my head, I would check out American City, Southern Place; Thomas DeLeon Cooper; Samuel Mordecai's Richmond in By-Gone Days; Sally Brock-Putnam (all available online, GoogleBooks).
Paul hit the nail right on the head, let the research guide you. If you keep an open mind, you will be surprised about the final results.
Best of luck,Jason C. Spellman
Skillygalee Mess
"Those fine fellows in Virginia are pouring out their heart's blood like water. Virginia will be heroic dust--the army of glorious youth that has been buried there."--Mary ChesnutComment
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Re: Research Paper Help
Which supposition? Mine, that it would be easier to find it used more for the north than the south?Originally posted by Doughboy View Post
One problem is that the abolitionists had a running start, since they'd been facing death threats or actually dying (Lovejoy, for example) for their cause for 30 years, while the pro-slavery folks didn't generally need to make a choice between their cause or death, in that era. So if one is looking at the whole decades-long ramp-up to the war, the north already had a head start in using it among their noisy little subset. Southerners certainly argued against abolitionists and for self-determination, but the Patrick Henry quote just wasn't as relevant for what was basically a defensive, status-quo argument.
So as the war began, abolitionists just kept using it in their literature as they always had, which skews the figures toward the north, while southerners had to start using it to forge a Confederate identity.
During the secession/wartime era, say 1860-1865, if one eliminated all the abolitionist examples specifically and looked only for southern or generic northern examples, I expect the balance might be more equal.
As far as specifics, first, here's a quick-and-dirty survey of examples from 1860-1865:
What I see among those links (google may show different results to different people) is:
1) Same speech I quoted
2) Historic discussion of the rev war era
3) Non-political use
4) "Resolved, that those who justify the Revolution of '76, cannot condemn the attempt of John Brown"
5) Generic patriotic elocution example
6) Article about Harriet Tubman
7) Reprint of #5 (generic patriotic)
8) Same speech I quoted
9) About a runaway slave
10) Patriotic speech from Wisconsin
11) Reprint of #3 (non-political use)
12) Fiery anti-slavery speech
13) Elocution example
14) Same speech I quoted
15) Historic example from Life of Thomas Jefferson
16) Reprint of #12 (anti-slavery speech)
17) Sermon about a mother who killed her child rather than it be recaptured into slavery
18) Pro-Union patriotic war speech
19) 1860 novel about a runaway slave
20) Reprint of #10 (patriotic speech from Wisconsin)
So, not counting the duplications or the historic or generic patriot examples, I see:
One pro-southern use (the one I quoted)
Two pro-Union uses
Five anti-slavery uses
So there's an example where eliminating the anti-slavery uses would bring it pretty close to equal.
But there's probably a bias toward northern publications, since there were simply more of them, so let's look specifically in southern places:
DeBow's Review. One example shows up, saying that George McDuffie's eloquence equalled Patrick Henry's et al. Now, George McDuffie was a fire-eater even before fire-eaters were cool, so it's certainly a southern example, but it's using the phrase for its elocution rather than its meaning, so not a strong example.
Vicki Betts quotations from southern newspapers yields three examples:
1) a good one from 1863: "Henry’s great speech: 'Give me liberty, or give me death,' words to which the united South now responds like the noise of many waters"
2) another good one. A flag presentation speech: "'Tis time for those who would be free to rise en masse, overthrow the foul destroyer of our rights and liberties, and say to all the world, "We will be free."... "Give me liberty or give me death," is the sentiment of every enlightened mind, of every mind bearing the impress of divine origin."
3) An 1859 patriotic letter, anti-war but not obviously taking sides: " And I hope that these internal dissentions among us, may be done away with, and the North and South will be benefited thereby."
So two more good southern examples.
One could go further, matching a search of the New York Times with a search of the Richmond Dispatch. Without going to see the context of each one, I get 19 hits from the Richmond paper and 11 hits from the New York Times, both December 1860-1865, so that's definitely southern leaning.
The Chronicling America Site of newspapers gives these examples for a search of the phrase "give me liberty": http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/se...hType=advanced
I didn't load all eight, but at a glance:
--three are southern (South Carolina and Louisiana)
--five are northern and/or anti-slavery (including the 1865 SC Leader published for freedmen).
So there's a quick-and-dirty overview of wartime uses. Without looking further in depth, it's hard to quantify them. One would need to eliminate a bias due to lack of southern publications, and weight the uses by factors such as how widespread and influential the specific speeches/editorials were, how crucial the phrase itself was or whether it was just a throwaway quote, decide whether to eliminate or include abolitionist examples, etc.
This could be a whole doctoral thesis just in itself, but that's about as much as I want to bother putting into it. Anybody else want to comment with more historic examples and context?
Edited to add: Before this goes down the road: "But the war wasn't about slavery!..."
I don't mean to say that northern=abolitionist. It's just that before the war, non-abolitionist northerners, southerners and other generic patriotic Americans had little reason to use the phrase as a regional rallying cry; it was just a historic, patriotic phrase to them. If one wants to look for its most obvious use as a rallying cry for a specific goal in the antebellum era, one needs to look at the tiny subset of abolitionists, who happened to be in the north, and who kept getting noisier and more mainstream as the antebellum and wartime era progressed.
Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.comLast edited by Hank Trent; 11-24-2011, 09:34 PM.Hank TrentComment
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Re: Research Paper Help
Here is a quote from the diary of George Albert Grammer, who served in Swett's Mississippi Battery:
"Two long years have elapsed since we commenced our journey. Many, Many, of that brave number who commenced this undertaking are passed away and probably many more will be sacrificed upon the altar of liberty before our independence is gained; but I say in the language of Henry, ‘Give me liberty or give me death."
Grammer's diary was published in serial form in the Vicksburg Evening Post from June 9, 1963, to June 21, 1963.Last edited by Championhilz; 11-25-2011, 04:28 PM.J. Thomas Giambrone, Esq.
Have History Books, Will Travel.Comment
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