General Lee's Rank?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

Check, Grant held two firsts, the first GO in the American Service to hold the rank fo LtGen since George Washington and the first "General of the Army" (not armies) and to wear 4 stars.

I had always presumed that Lee was considered a General, as all the others were referred to as LtGen, MajGen or BGen.

An interesting story depicting confusion of rank designations between the two armies operating on the U.S. continent during the ACW is during the battle of the wheat field, Confederate troops killed a Federal MajGen, however they, upon looking at his straps, figured they had not killed anyone important as he only had two stars, thus they figured he was a Major!

s/f

DJM

Someone correct me if I am wrong....but I believe "General of the Army" is reserved for 5 star generals only. Of these only a few generals ever were, Eisenhower, Marshall, Bradley and a not even a handful of others.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[markj]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

This comes straight from the horses's mouth:

http://www-perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/rank/goa.htm

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[marine05]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

DJM:

Lee was not "considered" a general, he indeed was a full general in the CSA (4 stars). Sorry, semantics...

Others held the rank of full general in the CSA - Samuel Cooper, Braxton Bragg, Albert S. Johnston, Joseph E. Johnston, etc.

Regards,

Todd

However, you have to think like a professional soldier. Any flag officer, general or admiral can be called either general or admiral and it is considered a proper form of familiar address. However, in formal correspondence or address their proper rank Brigadier, Major or Lieutenant would precede the word general, unless of course the bearer was in fact a General. To go on, in the Marine Corps only buck Sergeants are called Sergeant, all others are called Staff, Gunnery, First/Master or Master Gunnery Sergeant or Sergeant Major, which is unlike the Army that addresses all forms of Sergeant as Sergeant, informally. As a Marine I would consider, in formal address a person addressed as Sergeant to be a buck sergeant. The same for Lieutenant Colonels as I am, people address me as Colonel more often than not, I refer to my self as LtCol. Thus I would consider a person speaking to me or writing to me (unless they were standing in uniform) calling themselves Colonel to in fact be a colonel, not a LtCol.

The fun thing was being a Marine Corps Captain when calling a Navy base, I always got swift action as a Navy Captain is equal to a Colonel. I never told them I was a Marine!!

So concerning semantics, when I as a professional soldier, stated that I had always "considered" Lee a General, means that because there was no other rank preceding the word general, that he was a full general. For us there is no such title or reference as "full" general, those are layman's terms, the person is either a General or holds some subordinate rank. As I have been doing this for most of my life I forget that people that have not spent their lives in the military are not aware of some of the nuances of military parlance.

So I guess I should not have presumed that all would understand and I will endeavor to make myself clear in the future.

s/f (for the non-Marines that means Semper Fidelis)

DJM

[marine05]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

Someone correct me if I am wrong....but I believe "General of the Army" is reserved for 5 star generals only. Of these only a few generals ever were, Eisenhower, Marshall, Bradley and a not even a handful of others.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

No, General of the Army was not reserved for 5 stars until WWII. Prior to Gen Pershing, two of the few previous holders of that rank were Washington and Grant.

In December of 1944, in the midst of World War Two, the new Five-Star officer rank was created, allowing generals and admirals to place a total of five stars on their uniforms and flags. In all, four Army generals, four Navy admirals and one Air Force general have held this rank.

George Washington holds the highest rank in U.S. military history, "General of the Armies of the United States," (note the plural use of "armies") which was awarded posthumously. General John "Black Jack" Pershing was awarded the title "General of the Armies of the United States," but wore only four stars. By an act of Congress (Joint Resolution of Congress, Public Law 94-479) in 1976, George Washington, was said to "have precedence over all other grades of the Army, past and present."



Following the U.S. Civil War, Congress created the rank of "General of the Army." In 1866, General Ulysses S. Grant was given this title. Upon Grant's retirement from the Army in 1869, General William T. Sherman followed Grant in this office. In 1888, General Philip H. Sheridan was promoted from Lieutenant General to General of the Army, and held that office until his death.

s/f

DJM

[Brent9thTx]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

In echoes (p.102), it says that A group of women from Maryland made the coat, sewed on the stars, and sent it to him. It also alludes that Lee didn't need the insignia, it was understood who he was.

[JWolf]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

It is interesting to note that is his writings, General Grant described his and General Lee's uniforms when they at Appomattox to discuss surrender terms.

"...General Lee was dressed in a full uniform that was entirely new, and was wearing a sword of considerable value... In my rough traveling suit, the uniform of a private with the straps of a lieutentent general, I must have contrasted very strangely with a man so handsomely dresses, six feet high and of faultless form..."

It could be then, that Lee's coat with the 3 stars of a Col. was more a field uniform and not a dress uniform.

Related to the topic, General Stonewall Jackson was known to wear his old US Army major's jacket early in the war- he was given a new dress presentation coat with the general's insignia, french braiding in the sleeves, etc. just before his death.

Jim

[Dale Beasley]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

Jim,
Now, I wonder is Lee offered Grant his sword?

[Last Southron]

Re: General Lee's Rank?

Has anyone read this: The Fabric of Command: R. E. Lee, Confederate Insignia, and the Perception of Rank Author(s): Edward D. C. Campbell, Jr. Source: The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 98, No. 2, The Trumpet Unblown: The Old Dominion in the Civil War (Apr., 1990), pp. 261-290 Published by: Virginia Historical Society?