Le Flaget Rogue

[Micah Trent]

Over the past weekend, I listened to a "historical interior desginer" (never have heard of this title) while in Nashville. The gentleman speaking brought up the fact the many homes built in the south would use French patterns and designs to show off their wealth. One pattern in particular was the Le Flaget Rogue.
There were no pics or object to view of this pattern, but it caught my attention. However, I have done quite a bit of searching on this on the net and a few books, since Saturday and have come up empty.
Do any of you all know about this certain pattern or can show me in what direction I can look to advance my search? Any help would be great.

[john duffer]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Are you sure of your spelling Micah ? I can't find flaget in the French dictionary and rouge - RED would make more sense than rogue - ROGUE, RUFFIAN

[Micah Trent]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

John,

I am not 100% sure on me spelling. I wish I was. I think I'm close but I am not a French specialist by any means. :confused_ I've tried spelling it a bakers dozen different ways and can't come up with anything. I'm like you. I have checked a French dictionary and came up empty. This is why I am seeking help.

[Micah Trent]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Let me expand on this: The pattern, from what I understand, and if I am correct, was used more in wall papering and some flooring. I don't know if this will help or not. As mentioned earlier, any help in this would be great.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

I checked a French dictionary and the closest thing to "flaget" is "flagelleur" or one who whips themselves (flagellant).

The French word for "froth" or "lather" verb usage -

lather:
English definition | in Italian | in Spanish
conjugator | in context | images

lather:
Principal Translations/Principales traductions
lather (foam) nf écume
lather (soaps froth) nf mousse (de savon)
lather (form lather) v mousser ⇒

Additional Translations:
lather v écumer ⇒ (cheval)
lather v flageller ⇒
lather (beat with whip) v fouetter ⇒
Compound Forms/Formes composées

Look it up: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/lather

My guess: Lousy French spelled by an English speaker

"Bad Lather" How about "red lather"... you know... the old kind of red velvet wallpaper that has patterns in it.

-Johnny

PS- Another possibility is that it is Middle or Old French that is no longer used... ?

[john duffer]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Okay, I'm assuming you didn't see this in print but spelled it by sound - le flaget rogue - so it's probably - les ___ettes rouge. My closest match so far is flechettes DARTS. There's an accent on the 1st "e" so it is pronounced "a". les flechettes rouge or RED DARTS. It would no doubt help if I knew anything about architecture or interior design.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

It's funny how you look at something with a fresh eye, and see it. I was trying to figure this out, and, like Duffer, guessed yesterday that it had to be "rouge." But I looked at this title again this morning, before even opening the posts, I saw it. The Red Whip.

My French isn't good enough to figure out how to turn "flaget" into something that means "flagellating tool" in French, but I can tell you about the context of the phrase.

The image of nuns whipping themselves, or being voluntarily whipped by others, until they bled, was a cultural one that people were familiar with. The masochism folks of course got more out of thinking about it than most, but it was familiar enough that there's even a tall thin flower with a red tip that was common in period gardens called "Nun's Whip" (alternate name: Love Lies Bleeding).

Can't find much on the practice in a quick search, but I did find this, from Voltaire: http://books.google.com/books?id=kj81AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA178 Not even gonna quote from it, because the sexual side is a little too obvious. Somebody who knows more about Catholic history or the history of kinky sex I'm sure can elaborate on the cultural context of it.

But... bottom line. I betcha the phrase is French for the red whip, meaning a whip with blood on it, probably referring to religious whipping, and is some sort of design like the nun's whip flower, linear with red.

Now we just need somebody to figure out how to get it into French and see if I'm right. :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[john duffer]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

The red whip would be le fouet rouge. I still don't get anything on the internet relating it to wallpaper or trim.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Hmm. Micah, do you still have the name of the fellow who gave the lecture? Wonder if we could shoot him an email for more information?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Micah Trent]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Hank,

Sadly, I never caught his name. I asked my wife and she didn't catch his name either.

From what I get, I can understand the red as far as color goes. Red, especially a darker red being a common color. It also being a "rich" color, however, like you, I too do not see how whipping would tie in with French interior designs as far as patterns go after reading into this more.
Aggrivating this is.
I wish he could have stated references to his statements. That would make this possibly more easier. I am beginning to wonder if he was possibly confused with another "french pattern" or he got his wording incorrect.
Still looking.

[GermanDraftee]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

Micah,

If you remember where you heard the speaker and/or who sponsored him, you can check with them to see if you can get the speaker's name/contact info.

If thats a dead-end, I'll suggest looking for the book featured on this link:

http://www.chipsbooks.com/hisfurn2.htm

If thats a dead-end, well I'm tapped out of suggestions.

Assuming that "red whip" is an accurate translation of the term you heard, it does not necessarily have anything to do with Christian flagellants. (Extremists who, as organized groups, were eventually declared heretical and suppressed in most of Europe). Red whip could refer to a plant, a form of coral or a myriad of other things. The one thing I have been able to glean from the searching I did was that there was a significant Middle-Eastern influence on French design in late 18th - early 19th century French design, especially after Napoleon's foray into Egypt.

Best bet, IMHO, is the first suggestion.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[john duffer]

Re: Le Flaget Rogue

I asked my French professor about this but she couldn’t come up with anything off the bat, the problem being both that the term might/might not be very specialized and we’re looking at an English speaker’s phonetic spelling of a French phrase that may or may not have been pronounced correctly. One possibility for “flaget” is “frégate“ ( SHIP OR BIRD) pronounced in English as FRAA-GOT . Once again I can’t find anything in GOOGLE that supports this .

Micah
Put on your memory cap, was it

le, la or les: LUH, LAH or LEI

rogue or rouge: RO-KAH or RUUGGE

flaget - no real clue, are you hearing FLAG-ET , FLA-GET, etc ?