A Masonic Incident

[Dale Beasley]

Re: A Masonic Incident

The obligation is as real now as it was then. Let me explain... Several months ago I was working in the Emergency Room at Port Gibson. In the middle of the night a man came into the Emergency Room asking directions. I noticed the Masonic belt buckle he was wearing. I told him I was a Brother Mason. He told me where he was going and he asked me if 22 dollars was enough for gas to get there. I told him it was not. I took my break and took him to an all night gas station and filled his truck up. I hope this may explain that it is all about obligation. This was a Brother in distress.

[boozie]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Joe, I don't think you have offended anyone or made anyone uncomfortable. Actually some of the questions you have are some of the same questions I used to have in the past.

No one forced these men to go after their Confederate "brothers", they simply knew it was their obligation/duty to a brother in distress, it worked that way for both sides. Your current quest may lead you to the answers that you seek in the future.

S.R.B. Waveland Lodge #300

[Hank Trent]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Something I've been curious about... if triage was necessary, was a Mason obligated to try to divert resources to other Masons first, regardless? For example, in the traditional Victorian "women and children first" kind of a situation, would a Mason be obligated to try to get another male Mason on the lifeboat before a non-Masonic-connected woman or child, if he signals for help? Or to swim out and assist a strong male Mason before helping a weaker non-Masonic-connected woman or child? I'm speaking of a volunteer rescuer like a fellow passenger, not a captain or someone following official orders.

No, I'm not on any kind of a quest, before any goes there, nor am I planning to portray a Mason. I've just been curious how Masons dealt with the conflict between their obligations to help other male members, and the Victorian-era pressure for men to help women before helping other men.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Beaner]

Re: A Masonic Incident

It is our obiligation to help a brother in need. It is also our obiligation to help anyone in need that asks. The Masons are to help all to improve the fellowship of mankind. Many of us raise money to provide for those in need weather they are Masons or not. I think the best way for you to have your question answered:) would be for you to attend one of your local lodge's meetings. I'm sure anyone of the brothers would happy to answer your questions. The big secret of Freemasonary : is there are no secrets. If you can't locate a local lodge I'm sure one of the freemasons in this thread will be more than happy to locate one for you.

Dave Prince
walled Lake lodge #529

[mtvernon]

Re: A Masonic Incident

The obligation is as real now as it was then. Let me explain... Several months ago I was working in the Emergency Room at Port Gibson. In the middle of the night a man came into the Emergency Room asking directions. I noticed the Masonic belt buckle he was wearing. I told him I was a Brother Mason. He told me where he was going and he asked me if 22 dollars was enough for gas to get there. I told him it was not. I took my break and took him to an all night gas station and filled his truck up. I hope this may explain that it is all about obligation. This was a Brother in distress.

That was a great thing to do for anyone, by anyone, and this world is indeed a better place because of people like yourself and acts like the one you described. You deserve applause.

Nonetheless, the question at hand was whether or not that bond of Brotherhood is binding when the Brother in question is your country's enemy. Still, a great story.

Respectfully,

[mtvernon]

Re: A Masonic Incident

It is our obiligation to help a brother in need. It is also our obiligation to help anyone in need that asks. The Masons are to help all to improve the fellowship of mankind. Many of us raise money to provide for those in need weather they are Masons or not. I think the best way for you to have your question answered:) would be for you to attend one of your local lodge's meetings. I'm sure anyone of the brothers would happy to answer your questions. The big secret of Freemasonary : is there are no secrets. If you can't locate a local lodge I'm sure one of the freemasons in this thread will be more than happy to locate one for you.

Dave Prince
walled Lake lodge #529

Thank you Mr. Prince (and Mr. Busenbark),

I appreciate your measured and informative remarks. I think Mr. Trent has come closer still to the heart of the matter, and I'm interested in your response to his post.

As for attending meetings, I'm afraid my membership in another organization precludes my attending. However I have seen first hand that Masons, etc., do many philanthropic things and to the extent that human suffering is diminished they indeed deserve applause. I think also that as men, we naturally desire kinship and brotherhood and to belong to something bigger than ourselves, so there as well these virtues are great and to be encouraged.

I feel like this was a good thread and I would like to hear more on the matter.

Respectfully,

[BrianHicks]

Re: A Masonic Incident

No... a Mason would not, and is no way obligated, to detract from another persons relief, in order to care for a Brother Mason. In fact... if it came down to a Mason, and a non-Mason... each needing a essential item for their welfare, and you could only provide for one of the two, then the non-Mason should be the one given that item.

Why? Simple.... self denial, sacrifice and the relief of others. The Mason in need of that item should, upon learning that a Non-Mason required the same item, refuse the item in order to see that another was cared for before himself. All of our obligations are very, very deeply rooted in Judea-Christina practices. To take relief, which would deny another that same relief, is contrary to what Masons believe in.

Why does a Mason help another Mason? For the same reason a Marine helps another Marine, or a Police or Fireman helps another of their brothers in their service. (If you can't grasp this concept, then it is unfortunate that you have never been enriched by belonging to such an organization or group.)

And it is for this reason, that Mason's (even on opposing sides in a conflict) have extended the hand of Relief and Charity.

Now.... would a Mason set aside his obligations or Duties to his Country, simply because his opponents were also Freemasons?

Let's recall the Alamo! General Antonio López de Santa Anna was a Mason. So where Davy Crockett, Colonel Travis and Jim Bowie. Did the fraternal ties dissuade Santa Anna from issuing his ultimatum of no Mercy? No... it did not. He did not allow his duties to his country to be superseded by his Masonic obligations (much to the dismay I'm sure... of those Brothers defending the Alamo)

[Beaner]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Brother Hicks,

Well said.

Dave Prince
Walled lake #529

[coastaltrash]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Mr. Landrum,

If I understand you correctly, your reply confirms my suspicion that the ties to Masonry do supercede the duties to one's country. My long-held assumption has been that one's obligation to one's country is a greater obligation (especially for a soldier in a time of war) than to a fraternal society. Perhaps I misunderstand you?

Respectfully,

Nope, you could not have been more incorrect in your guess as to what I said. All of the others are giving better advice and answers than I possibly could. But if you are so interested in Masons in the CW, I would say pick up a copy of A House Undivided and enjoy.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Nonetheless, the question at hand was whether or not that bond of Brotherhood is binding when the Brother in question is your country's enemy. Still, a great story.

Respectfully,

I think Brother Hicks has answered this question. I may not understand....but there is a difference between, Treason and Brotherhood. Maybe this would answer your question. In your first post, the story line went..."coming to the aid of a Brother in distress", "not coming to the aid in the act of treason."

Brother Landrum, I can not remember the "exacts", maybe you can, I know your father Brother Mr. Landrum would know the full story of the St Francisville "The Day the War was Civil"

[Hank Trent]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Thanks to everyone for the explanations. That makes sense.

I think the best way for you to have your question answered:) would be for you to attend one of your local lodge's meetings. I'm sure anyone of the brothers would happy to answer your questions.

Not really interested in the modern organization's practices, and I doubt that members of a local lodge could provide any more mid-19th-century-focussed information than the posters of the AC forum. That's meant to be a compliment on the research here, not a put-down on the local lodge.

The big secret of Freemasonary : is there are no secrets.

It's my understanding that that's been a recent shift in focus, and that in the 19th century, the secrecy was considered more of a good thing, and there was more paranoia (justifiably so). Or would that slogan, or its equivalent, be part of a Mason's interaction with a non-Mason in the 1860s?

I'm trying to figure out what a typical non-Mason's interactions and opinions would be like, concerning the local Masons in a typical 19th century community. The period Masonic donation table at Shaker Village Pleasant Hill showed I need to have that knowledge ready. Would a non-Mason even know who was a Mason among casual acquaintances, or would only Masons tend to know who the other Masons were? Were non-Masons used to seeing the local Masons gathered in their aprons in public, for example, such as posing for an outdoor picture?

I too think this is an interesting thread, and I hope that folks will realize anything I've asked or said is based on an interest in 1860s Masonry only, as it applies to living history situations, and not meant to be a reflection on the members or the organization today.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[BrianHicks]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Thanks to everyone for the explanations. That makes sense.

......

Would a non-Mason even know who was a Mason among casual acquaintances, or would only Masons tend to know who the other Masons were? Were non-Masons used to seeing the local Masons gathered in their aprons in public, for example, such as posing for an outdoor picture?

.......

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Hank,

In the mid 1800's Masons were active, in an overt fashion, in many communities. For example: the Masonic ceremony of laying the Cornerstone for Civic buildings were rather common.

Having tables at county fairs, such as we had at Shaker Village was not uncommon.

Knowing who is a Member of the Fraternity, has never been a secret, nor has the knowledge of who belonged to a local lodge, ever been thought of as something that had to be kept out of public knowledge. After all..... There are examples in mid 19th century papers where the local lodge advertised when their meetings were scheduled, and the location of lodge buildings have never been hidden... All it would take to see who was a mason, is for a person to simply watch who entered the building at the proscribed time.

Today, Lodges have the Meeting Times stenciled, or posted on the doors of their Lodge for all to read.

Worth considering... Masonry has enjoyed freedom in free countries, but Mussalini, Hitler, Stalin.... all suppressed Freemasonry.

[PvtSchultz]

Re: A Masonic Incident

" Would a non-Mason even know who was a Mason among casual acquaintances, or would only Masons tend to know who the other Masons were? Were non-Masons used to seeing the local Masons gathered in their aprons in public, for example, such as posing for an outdoor picture?"

Mr Trent, Freemasons then and now tend to be quiet about who and what they are. Simply put, we are taught to do certain things (charity etc) because this is what we SHOULD do period and that we should not do these things for public recognition.

Having said that, Freemasons were also secretive about who they were much like others were at that time. We must remember that Freemasonry was not the only fraternity out there and most of these other groups had a secretive component to them. During the 19th century, in my hunble opinion, Freemasons most definately did not advertise who and what they were. Yes there were lodges and yes people knew about the lodge and the people who belonged to the group but they were simply not as open about it as we are now. Now it is my understanding that Masons wore fraternal rings, they had pocket watches with Masonic symbols on it, carried the bible they took their Masonic obligations on and in some cases even had tattoos showing the square and compasses.

How public were this items in their day to day activity is uncertain. We can surmise and venture an educated guess but unless we have documentation, we will never know for sure. A Freemason would be known by some to be a member of a fraternity, he may even be known to be an officer but he probably did not walk around shouting it from the roof tops. Freemasons did and still do have public ceremonies such as would be seen at funerals, public parades and the laying of a corner stone for new buildings.

In my studies of American history, I have come across numerous accounts of Freemasons both before, during and after the war. As I write this, I am looking at my copies of Shelby Foote's "Civil War." Several times he talks about Freemasons gathering for a public function such as a picnic or how they provided aid to Masons and non-Masons alike (specifically widows and orphans).

As said before, giving aid to a fellow mason is no different than a police officer (like myself) giving aid to a fellow law enforcement officer. Would I help another officer over a private citizen in distress? Given the choic between helping a cop and a private citizen in distress I would help the cop first because that is what I should do and it would be expected by the Officer in need.

To understand Freemasonry during the American Civil War and the conduct of its members during that war would require more time than I fear this thread will allow. The article I attached via link may be of some interest and shed some light on the perplexities of the situation faced by ALL Freemasons. It will also show how my 1860'2 Southern Breeathren defined "country."

The link I have listed below will take you to an article prepared by a committee for the Grand Lodge of Virginia; "Free Masonry and the War. Report of the Committee Under the Resolutions of 1862,Grand Lodge of Virginia in Reference to Our Relations as Masonic Bodies and as Masons, in the North and South, Growing out of the Manner in Which
the Present War Has Been Prosecuted. Adopted by the Grand Lodge of Virginia, December 12, 1864, and ordered to be published. JOHN DOVE, Grand Secretary"

http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/masonry/masonry.html

[Bushrod Carter]

Re: A Masonic Incident

Great thread!

Mr. Marti, please read Brian Hicks posts carefully. He has answered your question more than once.

If you think Masonic acts of charity and relief are treasonous – contemporary or historical – then I suggest you make a long weekend of research on the subject. I think you will find that Masons have acted in this manner during every military campaign from the founding of this country to the present. During all that time I do not know of a single incident of a Mason being charged with treason for his actions.

Don’t you think that charges would have been filed at least once during the past 230+ years if it had been the case?

Also, I feel the only one “unnerved” in this conversation is the questioner. Everyone here has attempted to answer your question as best they can. Time and a poor typing ability restrict me attempting to delve further into this topic. However, if you are still interested in discussing this topic further, I’d be happy to share a shade tree with you at a future event and discuss it at length.

Patrick Craddock
Hiram #7
Franklin, Tennessee

[BrianHicks]

Re: A Masonic Incident

For those whom have not yet seen it, this link is to a previous discussion on Freemasonry, which took place here on these same forums:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=717