Regarding Masonry

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Brett,

Why be an outsider? Remember, 2B1Ask1!

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Workin' on it...

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Regarding Masonry

If this question is offensive, please forgive me.

Dad was a Mason. We were watching TV news one evening and he remarked that a particular person in a crowd shot must be a brother. I looked, but didn't see any identifying tie clasp, pin, etc. Was he pulling my leg, or is there a sign of recognition even in casual, definitely non-emergency situations?

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Becky,

That's possible, there are certainly ways that that could be accomplished and a few Brothers in the public eye have done it in very tricky ways. Or to think of it in another light, perhaps it was the context of why the guy was on TV. Perhaps he did something or was known for some quality that made your dad feel as though he may be a Freemason.

With my AC hat on however, lets attempt to keep this thread focused on the fraternity in our period, or the preception thereof. I'm certain that I or any of the other Brothers posting on this thread would be happy to discuss more modern aspects of the craft via email or PM. Pick your favorite Mason and go for it.

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Workin' on it...

It was a long and winding path to the western door of the lodge, but yesterday morning I bumped my head against it and saw great lights (in addition to the stars).

Tom Ezell
Adoniram #288
Little Rock, AR

[mtvernon]

Re: On Masonry

It also seems to me that Roman Catholics at various times have also regarded Masonry with suspicion, although I am not 100% certain on that.

(Dear Moderators - I'm not trying to bring my views or the modern era in this discussion, but rather I think for a good understanding of the topic it might pay to mention the modern policy and modern experience to provide some contrast.)

On this topic there persists some confusion (and debate among Masons who also identify as Catholic) , but basically the Catholic Church has barred its members from becoming Masons since 1738. That has never changed, although in the last 40+ years there has been confusion by some, which is thought to come primarily from ‘softening of language’ from the Vatican on this matter to the point of becoming ambiguous to some. Further confusion comes from the Masonic point of view which doesn't have a problem with membership in the Catholic Church. In 1983, Pope John Paul II restated the Church’s position, saying, “[T]he Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains …[t]he faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.” – Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Masonic Associations, Nov. 26, 1983.

From 1738 until 1983 being a Mason, while at the same time being Catholic, incurred the threat of excommunication – pretty serious stuff. I’ve read some pretty hot back and forth mudslinging from around the time of the French Revolution, so I question how openly a practicing Catholic would publically belong to the Masons 150 years ago. as mentioned previously, I was also aware of some versions of Methodism not being too friendly toward it as well. I think the lines were drawn pretty sharply, and I think there were harsh words for each side, although I’ve yet to see evidence for that in the 1860s.

Respectfully,

[Spinster]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Blessings to you Mr Ezell. Another Traveling Man.


Mr Marti,
I somehow hope you to be versed in the similar organizational structure and purpose of the Knights of Columbus, who provide good works and brotherhood in a format acceptable to the Mother Church. I wish you would speak of that.

I've not encountered the Methodist prohibition during the period , but I can see the logical roots of it based on my knowledge of that doctrine. I think I shall go looking when time permits.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Regarding Masonry

As you know, Freemasonry has no objection with Catholicism among it's ranks - it's the Catholic Church that has taken issue with freemasonry. I've heard/read various theories on the subject which suggests some of the reasons the Catholic Church may have taken that stance - beyond doctrinal reasons.

More to your question - there was at least one Catholic-Freemason who signed the Declaration of Independence (Charles Carroll) and two others (Carroll's brother and Fitzsimons) that signed the US Constitution. Additionally George Washington was Church of England, but regularly attended Catholic services and was a well known freemason.

Specific to the period of the 1860's, I'd have to do some looking around but I assume there were Catholic Freemasons in the 1860's, just like there were at the turn of the 18th century and just like there are today. Anecdotaly, at least one of my best masonic friends is Catholic - it doesn't seem to slow his participation.

I've always found the Anti-Catholic "Know-Nothing" movement in the 1850's to be interesting reading. Freemasons had their own baggage with the Morgan Affair a couple decades earlier. For a Catholic-Freemason, it would perhaps be a perilous intersection of characterizations and mischaracterizations to navigate through as a member of both.

Interesting subject. Let me know where you get with it.

[Stewart-Gray]

Re: On Masonry

So mote it be Brother Patrick.

Stewart-Gray

[mtvernon]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Mr Marti,
I somehow hope you to be versed in the similar organizational structure and purpose of the Knights of Columbus, who provide good works and brotherhood in a format acceptable to the Mother Church. I wish you would speak of that.

The KOC openly admits that it is a response to those Catholics who long for the brotherhood and fraternity that Freemasonry provided but were prohibited from joining. I'm not a member, but I have heard from former Masons who are currently Knights that the structure and purpose is quite similar to the Masons with some obvious foundational differences. But to try to answer (vaguely) your original question, since 1738 there has been no ambiguity regarding Catholicism and Freemasonry from the standpoint of official positions. I don't know how many Catholics at the time would be involved as Masons, but whoever did probably didn't advertise, I would guess.

As you know, Freemasonry has no objection with Catholicism among it's ranks - it's the Catholic Church that has taken issue with freemasonry. I've heard/read various theories on the subject which suggests some of the reasons the Catholic Church may have taken that stance - beyond doctrinal reasons.

I'm sure there were/are regional reasons that might exist, but without needing to go into further detail, I agree with your first sentence

Specific to the period of the 1860's, I'd have to do some looking around but I assume there were Catholic Freemasons in the 1860's, just like there were at the turn of the 18th century and just like there are today. Anecdotaly, at least one of my best masonic friends is Catholic - it doesn't seem to slow his participation...[f]or a Catholic-Freemason, it would perhaps be a perilous intersection of characterizations and mischaracterizations to navigate through as a member of both.

There are numerous examples of Catholic Masons today, but rather than think they are acting in open defiance of their declared faith, I think most of them just aren't aware that there's a prohibition. The fact that most Masons seem to be pretty normal, every day nice folks who have no problem with their Catholicism probably fails to raise any flags as well. But all this is modern. I'm not sure what the person of the 1860's would know about the upper echelon doings of the Vatican. With all the information at one's fingertips these days, and knowing there are still some who are honestly unaware of these writings, I suppose it's true that examples could be found of people of the truly snail mail 1860s who would likewise be unaware. But that's just me speculating. I can't seem to find any source to confirm or deny this at the moment.

[Tom Ezell]

Re: On Masonry

As for our particular appeal at the time--we greeted the man in a manner she knew from Eastern Star and I knew from Rainbow Girls. Our need was genuine. He was clueless.

One afterthought on this matter, unless a Master Mason is also a member of the Eastern Star, he is not taught the signs, tokens, or other secrets pertaining to that order. Nor would he likely know any similar signals from the Rainbow unless he's active in overseeing an assembly.

Still, a fellow who has taken his obligation to heart is expected to come to the assistance of those in distress, of the Masonic family or not, if he is reasonbly able to do so...

A good period reference for how it was handled in the 1860s is Brother Michael Halloran's book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, published in 2010, which cites a wide variety of vignettes in which widows or wives were able to appeal to the aid of passing Masons, and there are a number of examples in Allen Roberts' House Undivided, which is a little older, but still a good resource...

Tom Ezell, 32°
Valley of Little Rock, Orient of Arkansas
Adoniram Lodge #288, F&AM
Union Chapter #2, R.A.M.
Occidental Council #1, R&S Masters
Hugh de Payens Commandery #1, Knights Templar

& Co. A, 6th Arkansas Infantry

[3DistinctKnocks]

Re: Regarding Masonry

Greetings Brethren, Sisters and Friends,
I don't know how common it was in the mid 1860's for women to wear the slipper emblem, but I purchased one for my wife to wear when she's out and about, usually on her jacket lapel. Its small but stands out on a dark background. For those who don't know what the slipper is, I have attached a link for more information on the Masonic history of the "blue slipper". This emblem, from what I understand, is specifically for the female kin of Masons as a sign of recognition to Brethen while the lady is traveling, should they need assistance. I have seen only a very few examples dating as late as the Victorian era, so I don't know how common they were during the war.

Check out this link

Sincerely and Fraternally,
James McMillen