The Yellow Rose of Texas.

[Deuceswilde]

Very often I hear a version of this song played that differs from the melody found on the 1858 score. When asked about it, the performers will answer with a vague "It is the old version" or "that's the way it used to be played." The problem I am having is that I have not been able to locate a documented source for this alleged "old style" melody. I will admit that my resources are pretty limited, but because this other version is the one I hear most often played at events by groups who (erroneously) claim to be giving an accurate impression, it would stand to reason that it would be easy to find. So, I ask of you fine ladies and gents, does anyone have a documented source of this variation? I would post notation examples but it seems I am not allowed to add attachments. Hopefully folks understand what I am talking about.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

In a world in which, to some people, "history" is the old episodes of "Star Trek," many undead historians learn their period tunes from Mitch Miller and the Gang rather than from primary sources.

Sorry you can't post attachments yet -- send me a Private Message, though, and you can e-mail me the score that you have -- but this is what I've found, and it doesn't really differ from the "popular" version of the past century.



Curious as to how the 1858 score differs, and what the shrugging masses claim is the "old" version.

[Danny]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Very often I hear a version of this song played that differs from the melody found on the 1858 score. When asked about it, the performers will answer with a vague "It is the old version" or "that's the way it used to be played." The problem I am having is that I have not been able to locate a documented source for this alleged "old style" melody...

Joel -

Well, from one source * anyway, the earliest known record of the lyric is an 1836 handwritten manuscript, a poem, written just after the battle of San Jacinto (April 21, 1836). It is signed by a "H.B.C.", with these lyrics and spelling:

There's a yellow rose in Texas
That I am a going to see
No other darky knows her
No one only me

She cryed so when I left her
It like to broke my heart
And if I ever find her
We nevermore will part

She's the sweetest rose of color
This darky ever knew
Her eyes are bright as diamonds
They sparkle like the dew

You may talk about dearest May
and sing of Rosa Lee
But the yellow rose of Texas
Beats the belles of Tennessee

So it must have been later, not earlier, that "soldier" replaced "darky", and "She's the sweetest little flower...." replaced " She's the sweetest rose of color...." . And probably also the stuff about Beauregard, Bobby Lee or "Sing of General Lee". And probably not until the retreat of Hood from Tennessee 1864 was the stuff added about going back to Uncle Joe in Georgia added.

At any rate the first published score was 1858, the one you refer to. (for those that don't have it you can download the 1858 sheet music as a pdf from http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu. No Civil War references in the lyrics of that version either.

So whatever your Pards are claiming about "the earlier version", it would have to be some sort of folk (unpublished) version of the song, verbally passed on and sung before 1858. Where's their source?

IMHO, for authentic impression then it seems safer to play the 1858 published version or one of the knock-offs published soon after, at least til mid-war period. That's what folks played on parlor piano and heard on Minstrel stage anyway.

Dan Wykes




*http://www.amaranthpublishing.com/yellow.htm

[Deuceswilde]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

The 1858 version is identical save the font and title layout. Lyrics were not my concern. The melody that is played is completely different than the known examples.

[Danny]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

...Lyrics were not my concern. The melody that is played is completely different than the known examples...

Joel -

OK, see what you mean. Well at least we know that at the time it was common to use different tunes for any given set of lyrics ("Blue-tail Fly" and "Amazing Grace" supposedly are examples). Since "Yellow Rose..." had no published score (that we know of) before 1858 it could have been sung to anything. Bully.

But with undetermined origins the older tune is simply a humbug, a reenactorism without merit. The tune works well enough though - hope someone can identify it's source independent of the "Yellow Rose..." lyrics.

Dan Wykes

[Annette Bethke]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Here is a link to the Yellow Rose of Texas article on the Handbook of Texas.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/YY/xey1.html

[Hank Trent]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

I know it's not about the lyrics, but I can't figure out how the lyrics could even be sung to the tune of the "old version" posted above (which I don't believe I've ever heard played, if I'm hearing it in my head correctly from the score).

Is it supposed to be starting out with the words "There's a yellow rose..."? If so, I get

There's a yellow (pause) rose in Texas (missing word for the quarter note)

And then it's all messed up until the fouth measure when "no one only me" fits perfectly. And then it's all messed up again.

I know the question isn't about the lyrics, but I'm not sure if the implication is that the normal lyrics fit the "old version," or is the "old version" just supposed to be a use of the same title for an unrelated tune?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Danny]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Here is a link to the Yellow Rose of Texas article on the Handbook of Texas.
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...s/YY/xey1.html

Annette -

I saw that link too but rejected it because it is misleading in describing "A handwritten manuscript of the song" and "...at least one scholar believes that it could have been composed by an uneducated person, possibly one of Morgan's slaves." In other words that site implies that that the original was scored music and not just words. Quite an accomplishment for anyone on the Frontier at that time to be able to compose music, especially an uneducated person. So I think that site is in error, I think it was only a poem.

The trick is to see that manuscript in the A. Henry Moss Papers in the Center for American History, to see if it was a music score, which would be the answer every question on this thread.

Dan Wykes

[Annette Bethke]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

I work just down the street from the center and several of the staff in my office go there frequently. I'll put the word out next time someone goes to see if they can look it up and see what is there. I'll also see if they can find the document listed in the bibliography of the HBT article.

[Joe Walker]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Annette-

Around Texas you may have heard that version "When I get to Austin" sung to the tune of "Yellow Rose". Some have called it the "early version" but I think it is a later version for early 20th century square dances.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Annette Bethke]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

A staff member is going to the Center for American History on Wednesday. He will pull the Moss file and see if he can get a copy of the manuscript and any associated details. He will also look through the file to see if there is any mention of the words being put to music and if so, what tune.

[Deuceswilde]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Thanks for all the replies. Because of the difficulty of tracing the origins, I an confidant that it is not PEC, and feel that Danny is correct by the reenactorism. The singing is the other odd part. They cram all of the lyrics in to part A. Part B is instrumental, and of corse played loud and at 100 mph. My notation of the melody is very simple as I was working from memory. I have not found any documentation on this arrangement to work from. I am by no means a competent composer composer. I apologize for the following link but is is the closest I could find quickly to illustrate the lyric pattern.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tSUeYLA8go

[Joe Walker]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

This Youtube version is the one I call "When I get back to Austin". I was told many years ago it was the "old version". Personally, this "reel" didn't strike me as being period. If it is the "old version" I would be surpized, but informed. I play this version with a minstrel medicine show here in Texas.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Danny]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

... I apologize for the following link but is is the closest I could find quickly to illustrate the lyric pattern.

In that U-tube, by the time they get to the B part it sounds like an iteration of "Soldiers Joy" B part. If so, that's a tried- and- true standard, an almost generic tune for fiddlers then and now. Not too much of a stretch to suppose the old-timers would slap "Yellow Rose..." or almost any other lyric on such a tune... particularly by the end of the night.

Still, that has to remain conjecture. The UT records pull may confirm...

Dan Wykes

[Joe Walker]

Re: The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Danny-

You're right, old Uncle Dave did that a lot.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards