Modern drum parts

[DonH]

So...I'm a fifer, so I may make an idiot of myself when talking about drumming...but what's new LOL! I was curious as to what makes a drum beat "modern." There's the obvious answer...a drum beat that cannot be found in period manuals, such as Hart, etc, etc.

But there are so many tunes we play that had no original accompanying drum parts...which obviously leads to finding period ones that fit or writing new ones. Obviously there are some drum beats you'll hear that are completely modern no doubt and deserve no discussion here.

But my question really is how do we distinguish and is it necessary to distinguish between a period drum beat and a "traditional" modern beat? By the latter I mean a drum beat written at some point after the CW for a specific tune that has been played so often by drummers it is considered to be the "right beat." Such as the arrangements by George Carroll in the 60s...they are not period beats, but for tunes like York Fusiliers, the Harriott, and Rakes of Mallow to hear a different part would be strange. The same with Mark Beecher's part for Adam Bell's March, or the beat for Kingdom Coming from the Company Books, or The Old Guard beat for Brandywine.

What I mean is...is it necessarily to find and learn an authentic, period drum beat for tunes such as above that for 40+ years people have been playing a different part (such as the Carroll parts)? Would that not be a pain in the rear as everytime you go to jam you won't be able to jam because everyone else is playing the "traditional" beat? In the end you would end up having to learn two drum beats for the same tune.

Idk, just a random thought I had this evening perhaps some of you could smack me on the backside of the head and wake me up...I've been assigned waaaay to much to read for my classes (that is...for the first week of classes).

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Modern drum parts

...is it necessarily to find and learn an authentic, period drum beat for tunes such as above that for 40+ years people have been playing a different part (such as the Carroll parts)?

I normally don't post in the Musicians' forum but I'll give it a crack. Here in AC world, we're more concerned with the authenticity and correctness of the things we do more than who's beat we're messing up. If you or anyone else can find drum parts written for said music and cite period reference then, in my humble opinion, the newer version should be cast out of our vernacular and replaced with the correct thing. On the same note (pun intended), if there is a beat that is being played and is known to be written post-war, then it should find no home in our camps or columns. This does a hindrance and an injustice to the historical research and dedication tat we all put forth. Farb is farb no matter how you look at it- point blank- black and white.

All of this is not to say that you can't or shouldn't learn whatever score you wish to learn but if you're working with other living historians or the public then it does more good to use the original parts.

Humbly,

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Modern drum parts

Donald,

I could give my opinion on whether the beats you mentioned sound like they could have been played during the war, but I won't. Instead, I'll give some questions that might help one decide so for himself, followed by what I think is the ideal answer.


Is the drumbeat simple enough that it could be learned by rote? Yes.

Could a competent drummer learn it in less than 5 minutes? Yes.

Does it have bass drum solos? Well, do any of the beats in the manuals?

Is it easy for a drummer who knows his rudiments? Yes.

Is it unique? Probably not.

Does it involve hitting your
buddy's drumstick with your own? Come on...

How many period drumbeats start the a-strain with a seven-stroke roll and 6 flams? How many period drumbeats start the b-strain with two 15 stroke rolls? Do drummers exposed to modern drumming find that boring? I may be a purist, but I've been drumming for nearly 20 years and I don't find it boring. It's called military drumming. It's repetitive and
it's supposed to be simple enough so that 15 year old boys could play it precise and uniform. It should be able to be easily played on relatively loose skin heads, not kevlar. And it's supposed to be loud too.

If you can read music, even if you are not a drummer, take a look at say, Bruce and Emmett, and flip through the 25 fancy quicksteps toward the back. In the drumbeats, you will see the same patterns over and over. I bet if someone split all the quicksteps into individual measures, throwing out the duplicates, there would be no more than 20 measures.

[Hardtack Herring]

Re: Modern drum parts

Well said Will,

I almost posted earlier but decide I would wait for you.

Carolls Beats are written in the PERIOD style. I think they are good beats for the most part. The bass parts in Adam Bells and The Harriot are questionable. I would lean more in favor of leaving the bass solo part out of the beat. Rather continue the snare part and keep the regular bass drum beat going to match the snare part.

Keep in mind that many of the historical fife tunes that we play do not have drum beats with them. When this is the case Will goes and takes a beat from a period source that goes well with the tune. If we still can not find one that works well we may use an A strain from a period source and get the B strain from another period source. We have been using this method for all of the tunes we have been putting together recently.

Donald you are right, it would sound funny to play another beat for Rakes, Harriot, and so on. For the most part those beats can be considered ok to use as they are written in a period style. That is the key. George took care when putting most of the beats together. He was sure to fallow patterns and use rudiments that were common in the Civil War.

As for tunes like Grandfathers Clock.... Well.... not period... Not published untill 20 years after the end of the war. Country Dance? Period tune for sure... Drum beat... FARBY. There is no evidence of playing a snare drum like the beats for both of those tunes. Sure... There are beats with stick clicks in them, but non that say click sticks with your buddy or play on his drum head. That is a little hard to do when marching.

The Connecticut style of drumming heard at most musters is not period. That style of drumming came around long after the Civil War. It is played fast and fancy. There are several reasons for this.

First. Competitions.

Second. Evolution of music

Speaking of the evolution of music and competitions.....This is when the sound of the snare drum changed. Muffles were added to the snare and bass drum to give them a higher pitch and to reduce the vibration and ring that comes from natural skin heads. To the modern ear many would say this is a better sound. To me.... I like skin heads with no muffles. That is the true sound of the Historical Fife and Drums. We will play on nothing but drums with skin heads and no muffles.

The next big change came with the invention of plastic heads (fyberskin). This gave the drum an even higher pitch. Modern Bagpipe drums are super high pitched.... I cannot stand the sound of those drums. The group that played on rope drums at Westbrook and Deep River were unique because they did not use those high pitched drums. To me.... This sounded much better.

I know I drifted a little from your original question but I think it has been answered pretty well.

My biggest problem is not with the majority of drum beats being used by Civil War Re-enactors.... But rather the drums they are playing them on. Tune selection is pretty good for the most part... But every now and then I hear a tune that is post war which has no place in our hobby such as Grandfathers Clock, or Country Dance with the standard beat we all have seen and heard.

Another drum beat that I really like...but has no place in Civil War Re-enacting is the DP Solo.... Sure it sounds pretty cool, but the fancy sticking is not how drums were played in the Civil War.

On another note... Army 2/4 and 6/8 will work with just about any tune in that time signature. In the video Echoes of Blue and Gray which is about veteran reunions there are several clips of fifers and drummers. The drummers play nothing but Army 2/4..... For everything.

[Hardtack Herring]

Re: Modern drum parts

Almost forgot to say.....

Will, I am sure Donald can read a little drum music. He is among the best Fifers I know. He sure can read AND write Fife music!

That is a good idea.... Look at some of Carolls beats and compare them to B&E, Howe or Hart... You will find that would fit in very well, with the exception of a couple of minor bass solos.

Then compare some of the drum beats used by Connecticut style drummer and other very talented modern day Fife and Drum Corps and compare them to period drum beats. You will see a big difference.

On another note.... I found this rather funny. My friend Edwin got a cool CD at Westbrook. I am not going to mention the Corps name. They portray 1750 French Fife and Drums. The CD Claims to be Authentic.....Well, I like the cd for the most part. It had a bunch of cool tunes on it... and period. Then to my surprise I hear Hell on the Wabash and the Drum solo DP. What? Hell on the Wabash first appears in B&E almost 100 years after their time period... The Dp drum solo....almost 200 years in the future!

Not very authentic if you ask me.

I e-mailed them and asked them why.

I also asked about their drums and fifes.

Their snare drums have fyberskin heads with muffles, their bass has skins with a muffle and their fifes are B Flat.

So there drums are farby.... No plastic in 1750

Their fifes are questionable as well. From what I understand French Fifes were in the key of D. I may be wrong on that. Just my understanding.

I do want to say I liked the CD. My major complaint is that it was suppose to be an authentic sound.... Which it was not.

So right there is a good example of why the sound of Historic Fife and Drums are nearly dead.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Modern drum parts

Paul,

Since you're talking about my drumbeats, I'll add that you can find some, including Adam Bell's here.

http://www.nationalcivilwarbrassmusic.org/MusicalResources.html

Two measures from Bruce and Emmett, two measures from Hart, it's really not hard to come up with period style drumbeats. It's the same handful of patterns and cominations of rudiments over and over.

I hope to get more of this stuff online someday. Maybe Paul will make an announcement when our website is up and running. It has sheet music and fife and drum audio too.

Country Dance is actually "an Easy Quick Step" from Potter's 1815 manual. But if you have to see the way most drummers to play it to understand why it is ridiculous.

Yeah, I know good fifers like Donald can read music. He even put together a book of fife harmonies. As a matter of fact, Bill Bynum, principal FIFER in the Carolina fifes and drums wrote a lot of their drumbeats, which are very period! I am sure Donald could do it also.

[DonH]

Re: Modern drum parts

Hey, sorry it's taken me so long to respond on my own topic lol...school has kept me rather busy to say the least. But I certainly agree with Chris in that they are indeed still modern and shouldn’t be played for historical accuracy; however, I also agree with Will and Paul in that they were written in exactly the style of the time that even a trained ear couldn’t tell they were modern beats (except for those occasional bass drum solos). Although the bass solos do sound cool and add a little variety to the general sound of the music, I like Paul’s idea of having the snare continue to play during them.

I also like the idea of taking small phrases from various period drum beats and combining them into one “new” drum beat for a tune. But would this still constitute being a “modern” drum beat, as it was technically not a drum beat played at the time?! While it is not a modern composition, it is still a modern arrangement. But perhaps I’m over analyzing the issue hahaha. It is still an interesting idea that definitely could work.

And…what’s the DP solo? And so much for the authentic F&I War corps hahaha. There are indeed very few actual authentic corps out there. I could see it being very, very easy to fall into the ancient trap of Connecticut, which happens nearly every large event.

Paul, GREAT resources there!!! Thanks! Let us see how long it will take before you start hearing some of those beats being played over some of the current ones. Especially if you taught them this year at the field music school. Look forward to seeing more when you get a chance!

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Modern drum parts

Donald,

Paul and I did not teach at the field music school. I just helped Jari out by giving him some sheet music.

It's funny that you'd say that to the untrained ear it's hard to distinguish between a genuine civil war beat and one of George's. It's not surprising that he wrote most of his beats in the civil war style, being the first person to take the old manuals and put them in modern notation. I do, however, believe there are some examples where he added some of his own style to certain beats, in some cases, outside the documented civil war style. But he never claimed that any of his beats sounded like the way it may have been played in 1863. Besides, the Old Guard and Williamsburg were never trying to be a civil war corps. They were wearing rev war uniforms. And anyone who has studied early 19th century drumming can tell you that it wa very very simple. There is not much 18th century material, but there is no way it could be more complicated than 1812 era.

George did write some great beats, but in my personal opinion, while using period rudiments, made some beats a little too fancy, as in York Fusiliers, for example. That B-strain is perhaps more complicated than any beat in any of the period manuals. It actually starts out with an obscure rudiment that was printed as an exercise, but never appeared in any beating, in any manual. It was called the treble (triple) paradiddle. It at least goes back to 1812 (Ashworth), and was also copied afterwards a few times, even appearing in Howe's 1862 manual.


For the drummers out there who don't know the beat, it starts

rllrrlrrlrrllrll



Then goes into FOUR sets of 16th note flam-taps. You won't find that in any of the beats in the manuals for sure. Great exercise though!

Don't get me wrong. I think every fifer and drummer today is indebted to George for his contributions to field music. Who knows if we'd even be having a discussion like this without his work.

"In this work, I have taken the liberty of transcribing the early military airs of this country, and added side and bass drum parts of my own composition. Heretofore, there has been no work such as this, with the exceptions of one or two selections. It is not meant that the drum beatings to these tunes become standard, or is it implied that they necessarily have to be used with their companion fife selections."

George Carroll, the Carroll Collection of Ancient Martial Music, 1962?

[Hardtack Herring]

Re: Modern drum parts

Hi Don,

I did not teach at the field music school. I know the people who did and I am sure they did a good job! Will did provide a bunch of music to the school. I am not sure how much of it was taught.

Will has dug up some great beats for our CD we hope to have ready by summer of of next year.

You will be able to hear them on that.

We are also working on a great website that has plenty of tutorials for the drum, fife and drum camp calls, and drum quiksteps.

We are working on adding a fife tutorial as well as some other great material. Once the site is ready I will be sure to post a link on this forum. I am certain it will have a lot to offer especially for those who are now just learning to play.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Modern drum parts

Another quote I thought of, one of my favorites...

"The performer should be careful never to fill up the beat, or march, with unnecessary or superfluous strokes or rolls, as any more than are necessary to keep the time correctly and coincide with the air of the tune for which the beat is intended, are unnecessary, and highly disgusting, unless in some particular fancy beats."

Alvan Robinson, Massachusetts Collection of Martial Musick, 1818.

[DonH]

Re: Modern drum parts

Oh, well maybe next year you two will be instructors!!! I like the Robinson quote...boy how different things would be today if everyone had followed that!