Rebel Songs in Federal Camp

[newshirt]

I always feel a little odd playing Bonnie Blue Flag, Dixie, Johnnie Comes Marching Home, and other Rebel songs in camp. But I like them so much I do it anyway. Does that wreck the authenticity for y'all? And along the same lines... how about Ashokan Farewell?

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

I always feel a little odd playing Bonnie Blue Flag

Tune is "The Irish Jaunting Car," pre-dating the war and existing in the North, with Northern-inclined lyrics written during the war.

,

Dixie,

Premiered at a New York music hall in 1859.

Johnnie Comes Marching Home,

Attributed to Patrick S. Gilmore, a bandmaster from Ireland who served with the 24th Massachusetts.

Ashokan Farewell?

A tune from 1982, has no place in authentic reenacting or on this forum.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

YES! it does. Not only the playing of modern songs or songs that would be considered traitorous, but also playing songs that are anachronistic for the time period being depicted (ie late war songs at early war events, etc) or that does not fit the background or back story of those singing it.

Music is a very powerful component of culture and proper music can be extremely effectual at setting the right tone or at destroying it.

While some songs predate the war or have multiple lyricks, when recognizably Rebel music is encountered at an event I am heartily in favor of shouting or singing the perpetrators down. ;-)

In the 1st California it is important enough for us that our unit actually includes music as part of our research and authenticity guidelines.

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

I love Ashokan Farewell because it reminds me of Burns' PBS series in the 1990s that rejuvenated my interest in all things WBTS and was the final push to really get me back into reenacting.

My younger son literally just played this with an honors orchestra on Saturday morning -- was the first time I've heard him play this as he's moved up the "ranks" of the orchestra. My Atlanta-raised wife and I both were very emotional about it. I didn't realize it meant so much, sort of a "graduation" in a way for him and for us and a reminder of how my interest has grown over the past 15 years or so.

That said, it is NOT period; its author says it was written as a sad lament that his annual music camp (Adirondacks or Catskills?) had ended and he'd be missing his friends and good times.

Those in the federal camp at Raymond II might remember my friend Bob sawing away on his violin at nightfall. No one hollered, "Hey, knock off the modern music," but he was patiently steered back toward the 19th century (and earlier).

I would prefer that music be from the right time frame, just as I don't like guys discussing WW II or modern computer issues when it's supposed to be "first person only."

As for performing Confederate songs in a Yankee camp? I'm sure Old Cremona and the many plenty other folks who unlike me have musical talent and research will chime in, but I remember reading that tunes such as "Johnny Comes Marching Home" and "Aura Lee" were considered "chart cross-overs" that would have been appreciated by listeners from both sides of the war. Even the 16th president of the U.S. admitted in 1865 that he appreciated "Dixie's Land."

Ever forward,
Paul Hadley

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

double tap

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

What Troy said....with the addition that outside of the clearly martial tunes and chronological identification it is tough to label popular songs as "Reb or Yank".

I'll draw fire on this one but Bobby Horton's Songs of the CSA and Songs of the Union CD's although done with modern instruments (steel stringed banjos, guitars, violins and some brass I think may be synthesized) but it is 100% historically accurate in terms of the songs which were popular in both armies and a great way to not only learn but to learn from the songs. The liner notes also contain excellent historical annotations. I am incorporating some of them into my repertoire of period tunes on early banjo.

[newshirt]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

YES! it does. Not only the playing of modern songs or songs that would be considered traitorous, but also playing songs that are anachronistic for the time period being depicted.

This is really what I'm keying in on. Clearly the songs pre-date the war, but during the war some were downright traitorous. Did Yankees dare play them in camp? If I'm correct, Lincoln only permitted the playing of Dixie in the White House after Lee's surrender.

Words like:
"I wish I were in the land of cotton"
"For Southern rights, hurrah"

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

"Morgenrot" is waay under-represented...

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/morgenro.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMf-VI2aRbU

[Danny]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

As for performing Confederate songs in a Yankee camp? ...I remember reading that tunes such as "Johnny Comes Marching Home" and "Aura Lee" were considered "chart cross-overs" that would have been appreciated by listeners from both sides of the war. Even the 16th president of the U.S. admitted in 1865 that he appreciated "Dixie's Land." Ever forward, Paul Hadley

Paul -

Well of course that was was the case, well documented in period accounts and published sheet music. Typically, though, the words changed for each purpose, hence there were many songs having both a Southern and a Northern version, both published during the war.

The original words to "Dixie" itself did not promote the Southern cause -- The Southerns took the popular tune just before hostilities began and replaced a line or two to make it a Southern anthem. After hostilities ended, Lincoln wanted the band to to play the tune, he quipped that it was rightly won back. If any sang along with the band, which lyrics do you suppose were mouthed in the Presidents presence? The original lyrics were still well known from popular use before the war.

btw I'd be obliged if "Ashokan Farewell" never be mentioned here again. Pretty song, but totally wrong for impression. Enough is enough.

Dan Wykes

[PogueMahone]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

Some songs cross battle lines:

As dread deepened, the various military bands attached to both armies tried to lift the oppressive mood by playing some of their favorite compositions. A musical battle between the bands soon ensued with Union and Confederate bands trying to drown out the other side.
The Confederate's "Bonny Blue Flag" was answered by "Hail, Columbia." "Yankee Doodle" echoed "Dixie".

Eventually, lively patriotic tunes faded away as one brass band began the lonesome strains of "Home Sweet Home."

"To thee, I'll return, overburdened with care,
The heart's dearest solace will smile on me there.
No more from that cottage again will I roam,
Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home."

Then bands from both sides ended the North-South competition and joined in on the mournful song with thousands of troops stopping to sing the chorus:

"Home! Home! Sweet, sweet home!
There's no place like home, there's no place like home."

[Danny]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

"Morgenrot" is waay under-represented...

Michael -

Could you share the documentation you have that a particular CW soldier or unit actually sang that song? Thanks ahead. Our Concertina player in particular, decended from a German-American Indiana volunteer infantyman, would appreciate the reference.

Would also like, from anybody, documentation that "Shenendoah" was actually sung by soldiers on campaign. Golly, how unfortunate if we can't document that.

Begs the question: Is it ok to sing or play any song we know was published by the time we depict, without documentation it was actually sung? And by AC standards, aren't more than one or two cites needed?

Campfire music was not Gov't issue of course, so it seems an early war publish is good for any later year of the war, which wasn't that long of a war for us to presume otherwise.

A related question about traditional or folk songs, to use the negro soldier impression as an example: Slave spirituals were not much published until after the war, yet we know these songs didn't just spring up the day after the war ended. So which is more fake: to sing them or not to sing them?

Dan Wykes

[J. Donaldson]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

To build in a way off of Mr. Wykes last sentence, I'm interested in folk music of any kind correct to the period. Many of these tunes, white and black in origin, weren't collected until the 1930s, passed from fiddler, banjo picker, and singer over generations. It seems to me that if we stick to music professionally published before and during the war years, we as a group are missing out on a wealth of music.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

Michael -

Could you share the documentation you have that a particular CW soldier or unit actually sang that song? Thanks ahead. Our Concertina player in particular, decended from a German-American Indiana volunteer infantyman, would appreciate the reference.

Would also like, from anybody, documentation that "Shenendoah" was actually sung by soldiers on campaign. Golly, how unfortunate if we can't document that.

Begs the question: Is it ok to sing or play any song we know was published by the time we depict, without documentation it was actually sung? And by AC standards, aren't more than one or two cites needed?

Campfire music was not Gov't issue of course, so it seems an early war publish is good for any later year of the war, which wasn't that long of a war for us to presume otherwise.

A related question about traditional or folk songs, to use the negro soldier impression as an example: Slave spirituals were not much published until after the war, yet we know these songs didn't just spring up the day after the war ended. So which is more fake: to sing them or not to sing them?

Dan Wykes

Re Morgenrot: Bell Irvin Wiley in The Life of Billy Yank, p. 169 "The favorite of the Germans seems to have been their stirring soldier song 'Morgenroth'..." citing Carl Witke in "The Ninth Ohio Volunteers" (aka "die Neuner") and Walter Koempel's translation of Phil Koempel's Diary. As I told you earlier, other German songs are documented to the war, including Hinaus in die Ferne.

For slave spirituals I already gave you a source -- Thomas Wentworth Higginson's Army Life in a Black Regiment, and war time articles in The Atlantic. He has a whole chapter on the songs sung by the soldiers under his command.

Both of these are standard works, and the fact that you seem to know nothing about them speaks volumes for your own expertise in the subject.

If you ever have the faintest interest in documenting one of your claims or checking someone else's, I suggest you begin in the standard literature, which is generally easy enough to access in MOA or Google Books.

I mean, would it kill you to look something up?

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

Many of these tunes, white and black in origin, weren't collected until the 1930s, passed from fiddler, banjo picker, and singer over generations. It seems to me that if we stick to music professionally published before and during the war years, we as a group are missing out on a wealth of music.

There is more published than you think. Lots online too. Research.

FWIW.... Early banjo isnt picked.

[J. Donaldson]

Re: Rebel songs in Federal camp

As I am not a banjo player, I hope my ignorance is not offensive.