Civil War Banjo Research

[georgewunderlich]

I have a question for this forum in light of a recent locked thread. I want it to be positive and assist us in a meaningful discussion that promotes authentic interpretation of ACW banjo practice and material culture.

How important is correct banjo information to this group? What part of currect scholarship is of interest to this group? What information about the banjo would assist this group in pressing authentic representation forward?

I am NOt trying to start anything, I am trying to betterr understand the needs and wants of this group.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

GW - I own your handiwork and really am all about what you do as a historian.

I welcome you to join the Ring De Banjo Social group for open discourse among reasonable men who love music first.

Which is easily found at the Community, then Groups tab at the top of this page.

Hope to see you breathe new life there.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Old Cremona]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

There seems to be some confusion here on the nature and purpose of the Antietam Early Banjo Gathering. This might stem from an earlier thread where someone asked George what the "authenticty and impression guidelines / standards" were and George replied that there were "no standards for this event in terms of authenticity"-- in terms of period dress.

Most conferences do not have "impression guidelines"--they're conferences, for goodness sake. Does the 17th Annual Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference advertised the Civilian section have "impression guidelines?"

The nature of a conference is to present research and scholarship, exchange information and enjoy camaraderie and hands-on workshops. The research and scholarship at the recent AEBG was certainly top-notch, in terms of early banjo studies. It could hardly be otherwise with luminaries such as George Wunderlich, James Hartel, Bob Winans, Pete Ross and Greg Adams--and previous participants have included Joe Ayers and Peter Szego. So rest assured that the AEBG does not break the AC rule of "no farbism."

[Spinster]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Exactly my thoughts Carl--the Early Banjo Gathering is a Conference--a place to learn--not an 'event', where standards are to be expected.

I guess I'd compare the concept to the wagoner's training we did for In The Van. While the event itself had authenticity standards, the training did not--folks showed up in everything from period dress to insulated Carharts---whatever they owned that was warm for a February training in blowing snow--for an August event where we wished we had some....

But, on to the presenting question. I have no intent of ever playing the banjo. My voice lends itself to period hymn singing but not so much to period popular music. Still, I love to listen. I want to know what it takes to be a good audience.

I want to know what makes the sound 'right', what makes the banjo itself 'right', what the options are for tuning and presentation, what songs were popular, where to find the music, what venues it was played in, and to what classes of people.

I want to see presentation suggestions--how one weaves this music into an event, making it a part of the natural play, rather than giving a history lesson of the music in the midst of an otherwise first person discussion.

If there are accepted dance steps to particular tunes, I want to know about them.

I want the differences clearly deliniated between this music and bluegrass, 'olde time', and other early 20th century styles so I won't be ignorant.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Most conferences do not have "impression guidelines"--they're conferences, for goodness sake. Does the 17th Annual Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference advertised the Civilian section have "impression guidelines?"

1) Educational conference, held in a hotel, not in period garb, intended for a closed audience of living historians and not for the benefit of interpretation to the public at large

2) Performance based educational conference held in a public historical military park with backing of the Federal Park System, by folks in period dress, bivy'ing in historical confines, conveying specific period concepts to spectators, some of whom I would assume, based on the level of historians behind the endeavor to be in the form of first person interp.

In terms of the high level of historians behind this and one personally making the cut for such an event authenticity wise, at the forefront the Director of a National Musuem, who is well published and known for his historical contributions in various media including TV, who is one of the most respected and well researched early banjo contributors and lutheirs....I would think inquiring about authenticity guidelines would not only be appreciated as part and parcel, but required.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Hank Trent]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Exactly my thoughts Carl--the Early Banjo Gathering is a Conference--a place to learn--not an 'event', where standards are to be expected.

I guess I'd compare the concept to the wagoner's training we did for In The Van. While the event itself had authenticity standards, the training did not--folks showed up in everything from period dress to insulated Carharts---whatever they owned that was warm for a February training in blowing snow--for an August event where we wished we had some....

But, on to the presenting question. I have no intent of ever playing the banjo. My voice lends itself to period hymn singing but not so much to period popular music. Still, I love to listen. I want to know what it takes to be a good audience.

I want to know what makes the sound 'right', what makes the banjo itself 'right', what the options are for tuning and presentation, what songs were popular, where to find the music, what venues it was played in, and to what classes of people.

I want to see presentation suggestions--how one weaves this music into an event, making it a part of the natural play, rather than giving a history lesson of the music in the midst of an otherwise first person discussion.

If there are accepted dance steps to particular tunes, I want to know about them.

I want the differences clearly deliniated between this music and bluegrass, 'olde time', and other early 20th century styles so I won't be ignorant.

What she said. The whole thing. Except my lack of being able to carry a tune means I'm not suited for singing or playing at all. :)

There are people who enjoy conferences and social learning opportunities as a hobby in itself. I'm not one of them. But however one learns, one still needs to have the knowledge, to be ready to go when the rubber hits the road, or the iron hits the trail, or whatever.

I think that either all conferences, training weekends and similar learning opportunities need to be "non-AC-approved," or ones that teach accurate information should be okay, if listed as conferences/lectures rather than living history events. The authenticity standards, in those cases, would be the accuracy of what's specifically taught in the lectures or demonstrations, rather than the peripheral use of clothing, microphones, modern seating, overhead projectors, etc. that wouldn't be accurate at an actual AC-approved event.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[georgewunderlich]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Just so everyone is aware. The conference was not open to the public but took place in a the Pry house barn with LCD projectors for showing original music and powerpoint slides, metal folding chairs and fans to keep everyone cool. Some folks did sleep in the barn and one couple camped CW style behind the house whilee others stayed in a local hotel.

There was a concert that was purely interpretive and not at all first person. While most performers were in period dress several where not. The stated purpose of the concert (which is the only part of the event open to the public) was to allow them to hear various interpretations of period music on period correct (including original) instruments.

There was no attempt to do any first person and period clothing was at worn because the participants wanted to do so. All interpretation was done in a modern third person manner.

It was done purely as a conference and not as a living history. The goal was to give those who are living historians new insights into current scholarship so that the living historry community could be enriched.

I write this only so that there is a clear understanding of what happened and why. I appreciate all of your comments and this discussion in general as it helps me better understand how to best go about planning andd publicizing in the future. thank you all for you comments!

[gregcadams]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

For new banjo players who are series about playing banjo based on interpreting primary source material while using both oral and written methods, here is one approach (one of many) to 19th century downstroke playing technique: http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/...ource=activity

It is an historically informed approach to playing early banjo based on 19th century instructional materials. With this, you might be willing to come to the next Antietam Early Banjo Gatherings to share what you are learning with everyone else.

Hope to see you there!

Thank you,
Greg Adams

--
Greg C. Adams
Project Director, Banjo Sightings Database Project (Vernacular Music Material Culture in Space and Time)
NEH Level-I Digital Humanities Start-Up Grant (http://www.neh.gov/ODH/Default.aspx?tabid=111&id=101)
BSD Blog: http://vmmaterialculture.blogspot.com/
*******

https://www.myspace.com/banjoroots

https://www.myspace.com/banjargreg

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

I am having a tough time nailing down support of Southrons playing minstrel music or Caucasians playing it outside of the stage and then always in blackface ? I am also stuck when it comes to references of the banjo tutors and songsters in the South. The largest circulating Southern newspaper and other document repositories make no mention of banjo tutors and little mention of banjo music at all.

I welcome any primary materials anyone can share.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[georgewunderlich]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Let me first repond to ther question of white banjo players not on stage. Photographic evidence alone supports the idea that many non-minstrels played banjo. Many back faced images were made uring the time period and they are not as comon as white face images. Some of the images actually show the profession of the banjo plaer. In one that comes to mind is a group of telegraph operators with a banjo.

We can also find references in Albert Bauer's work when he decribed himslef playing in Union camps as a member of a New York infantry unitl. His account is backed up by numerous images of white banjo players in CW photos.

I can give at least one account of a Southern banjo player and his banjo in a minstrel show setting. Pvt Wiley Burnett of the 1st. NC Cav had a Boucher banjo that he took to Point Lookout (taken prisoner at Petersburg). The banjo can be seen on the banjo data base. It should be noted that there is a watercolor done in the camp showing a Southern blackface show by prisoners for prisoners. The watercolors have been widely published and one can also be seen on the data base. There are two banjo players in the band and the family tradition has it that Burnett was one of them and the flute player in the band was know to be a friend of Burnett and captured at the same time. The flute player, whose name I no longer remember, left a diary account of his capture confirming, in part, the Burnett family history.

We must not forget that in JEB Stuart's camp we can find banjoist Sam Sweeney who was a minstrel and whose brrother composed many minstrel tunes. Adam Manley Reese is another known Confederate player and some good information exists on him. Another would be a man named Noel from Lynchburg. His banjo is now in the Sandusky Museum collection. Mr. Noel was known to have served in the Confederate army and was a native of Lynchburg.

These are a few examples but much more research needs to be done on Southern banjo of the period.

I hope this information helps.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

I hope this information helps.

Mr. W .....it does. My particular interest and scope of inquiry was the performance of "minstrel" music by white musicians. There is no question whites played the banjo, however I am not finding a lot of support for minstrel tunes being played as everyday casual or popular tunes as I had orginally thought. I find Sam Sweeney playing Southron martial airs (Jine The Cavalry...Virginia Marsellias) in Beauty's ranks but not too much minstrely.

My research has me inclined towards a line of thought that perhaps minstrelry was enjoyed as comical, performance music, but the tunes were not daily standards or played regularly outside the Northern music hall stage. A familiar parallel might be music like Weird Al Yankovich tunes...which offers mocking social commentary, is comical and widely enjoyed performance music, but are not tunes you find muscians covering or playing out of its performance context.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[georgewunderlich]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

This then may help in your specific inquiry. There is a bound sheet music collection in St. Louis that was put togerth in the 1850-1868 time period by Mrs. DeMeniel. She was from a very wealthy family that had made it's money in the fur trade and was considered very upper class in St. Louis. Her collection of piano music includes at least four minstrel tunes of the day including Camptown Races and Oh Susanna. I have seen similar sheets in other collections so at least some of the minstrel music made it to the mainstream.

To a certain extent we need to do research into how many of the minstrel tunes made it into the category of popular music. Old Dan Tucker is a good example of a popular tune from the minstrel tradition as is Dixie, Oh Susanna, Jordan is a Hard Road..., all of these find themselves being adapted to other words due in great part to the well known nature of their music. I also have found references in a Texas regimental history (I do not have the copies here at work so I do not remember which unit) that talks about singing Darling Nelly Grey around the campfire. I still think more work needs to be done on this. Greg, any thoughts?

[Old Cremona]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

. I find Sam Sweeney playing Southron martial airs (Jine The Cavalry)



Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Your research has yielded dividends you might not be aware of. "Jine The Cavalry" is a minstrel tune, originally entitled "Down in Alabama." You can find an excellent arrangement of this tune for stroke-style banjo in Phil. Rice's Correct Method for the Banjo, published in 1858.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

I viewed and promoted minstrel music as the "pop" of the day and the various tutors, Briggs, Rice and others as the "Mel Bay" learn to play books of that time. If you wanted to play you acquired a tutor(s) and banjo. It seems I was probably wrong or exaggerated in the true breadth and scope of that and as such didn't serve history well. I took the tutor / banjo approach and applied myself to learning (and trying to pass on through songsters) a fair lot of the Minstrel tunes. But a weekend of research and a search of the largest newspaper in the Southland, from mid-1860 thru 1865 doesn't reveal any mention of tutors or adverts therefore. Nor do the issues of Charleston Mercury or Confederate Veteran I have digital copies of (over 200+ vols). Matter of fact these periodicals are practically devoid of banjo mentions that could be used to base or advance one's historically representative impression and interp on. GoogleBooks and DOCSouth aren't very productive either......this is really taking the wind out of my sails. I do know a few Southern martial tunes and popular standards such as Katy Wells and Lorena.......and could certainly drop the minstrel stuff and learn more (for events if the oppty came along) but I enjoy, and spectators / participants seem to enjoy the minstrel stuff so much.

For me personally (manic-neurotic OCD) if I can't satisfy myself with credible support, I am still playing these tunes in an educational and enjoyment capacity, but perhaps in this community of first person, historically representave interpretation (a/k/a history heavy or EBUFU events), minstrel music is most accurately represented in the context of the Northern, metropolitan blackface performer and the Southron early banjo musician, absent specifc reference of occurences, is best interpreted through CS focused martial tunes, widely known standards and other spirirtual based songs ?


CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Civil War Banjo Research

Your research has yielded dividends you might not be aware of. "Jine The Cavalry" is a minstrel tune, originally entitled "Down in Alabama." You can find an excellent arrangement of this tune for stroke-style banjo in Phil. Rice's Correct Method for the Banjo, published in 1858.

Yes. Is your counsel then Jine the Cavalry is a Negro minstrel tune or Southron martial air ? It makes a big difference as folks look to your approval or condemnation. Jine The Cavalry does get played in limited circles and some of our Critter Company pards have requested it personally in the field.

I was keen on building the knowledge base for a S. Sweeney impression replete with no spook, banjo friendly mount. Even made a valise based lacquered cloth banjer tote'r for the horse.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida