period guitar

[5thvacoh]

Pards,
Wondering on what sort of finish would be on a period guitar and what would the tuning knobs be made out of...and anything elseabout them..
Thank you in advance.

Your Most Obedient Servant,

Patrick "Patch" Ciarrocchi

[cwmusicfan]

Re: period guitar

Pards,
Wondering on what sort of finish would be on a period guitar and what would the tuning knobs be made out of...and anything elseabout them..
Thank you in advance.

Your Most Obedient Servant,

Patrick "Patch" Ciarrocchi

Patrick,
Greetings! I looked into the finish of a period guitar and this is what I found: Typically what would have been used is what is called Dry Shellac Flakes. They would be disolved in alcohol and applied as a final finish. These can still be obtained from a Luthier supply store or other sources where the finest furniture is obtained. It's still used on the finest violins. It helps to create the optimum resonance and projection

As for tuners, they most typically were made from Ivory or Bone. Some were made from ebony. The gears of the machines at that time were hand-chiseled and very noticable. Later ones were cast.

Another dead give-away of a period guitar is what is called the "ice cream cone" heel at the base of the neck where it joins the body. It is hand-carved and rounded out as opposed to scalloped in on later models.

The bodies of the guitars were typically made from rosewood or mahogany. The interesting thing about period guitars is that the inside of the body would be lined with a very thin layer of spruce or maple. It's very easy to distinguish the color difference. The better guitars then, as now, had ebony fretboards, while cheaper ones had a dark stained wood of various types. The frets had absolutely no position markers (mother of pearl dots). The most basic didn't appear until the 1870's.

While there are exceptions to every rule, this is a pretty accurate summation.

I've been playing period guitar since 1985 and have several in my collection that I like to play in the field and at various historical functions.

I hopes this helps.

Your Most Obedient Servant,
Dan Cheatum

[David Swarens]

Re: period guitar

Patrick.
I'm glad to see that someone did respond to your inquiry.

I would like to add a little to that.
It seemed like the question might be responded to more generally also.
Most of my comments should be prefaced with "usually" so with that I will launch into it.

For most of the 19th century, the guitar was much smaller than the modern intrument.

The body is elongated, with a defined waist.

There are "12 frets" to the body on the neck.

It is strung with gut treble strings and silvered wire wound on silk bass.
("functional equivalent" of modern classical strings, but "gut" sets are available from La bella and others, with synthetic fibres rather than silk, but silver plated copper wire, and natural gut, as in the 19th century)

It has a pin bridge (basically like on a "modern" steel strung instrument).

It has a slotted head stock, with geared machines,with the gears above the worms (the reverse of current design)
occasionally it will have "pegs" of wood (ebony, rosewood, etc) or ivory or bone instead of "patent" machines. In this case, head stock will be solid, rather than slotted.

The fingerboard is wider than on a modern steel string guitar and narrower than a "classical" guitar.

Oh yes, it has six strings.

It is not much like either modern steel string or classical guitars, and neither of these provides an "authentic" equivalent, in appearance or sound.

Although Torres instruments by the time of the Civil War start to look a lot like their modern descendants, I have never seen a period American image that shows anything like that.

"La Guitarra Espanola" 1993 -Museo Municipal Madrid/Metropolitan Museum of Art (N.Y.) pictures Torres instruments from 1862 and 1864, as well as many other Spanish guitars, from the early days through the mid 20th century, with clear photos, dimensions, and descriptions.

Guitars in America were made here (Martin, Ashborn, etc.)and imported from Europe (Spain, "Germany," England, France,...).

I would add maple to (brazilian) rosewood (most common) and mahogony, as a third, if less common wood for bodies.

And finally, I would striongly recommend "C.F. Martin and His Guitars, 1796-1873" by Phillip F. Gura, 2003, U. of North Carolina Press.

In a similar format to his earlier work on the banjo, "America's Instrument," this is a well researched, and well illustrated compendium.

It is FULL of mid century images of musicians and their instruments, as well as ephimera and great new photos of period instruments.

As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words" and this book has words also!

Hope this helps!
Adios!

David Swarens

[fidlr1]

Re: period guitar

Here's one... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...717968000&rd=1


You can find similarly-constructed guitars that were made as late as the early 1900's....gradual evolution of the instrument...

[David Swarens]

Re: period guitar

Since this is a research oriented site, I wanted to add to my earlier post with a couple of quotes from primary sources.

From "HOWE'S INSTRUCTOR for the GUITAR" Boston, 1846;

"The Spanish Guitar has but six strings, three silver and three catgut; they are called E,A,D,G,B,E."


And in the 1853 version of "CARCASSI'S CELEBRATED GUITAR SCHOOL";

"The Guitar has six strings; the three first of which are Gut, and the three others of silk, covered with silver wire"

The above work has been reprinted many times in many forms, to the present;The 1868 and 1888 versions I have access to, repeat the above description (and seem to use the same printing plate).

Another work by Philip Gura is also of interest;
"Manufacturing Guitars for the American Parlor: James Ashborn's Wolcottville, Connecticut, Factory, 1851-1856"
is a monograph issued in 1994 by the American Antiquarian Society.
It has been available through "Elderly Instruments"


David Swarens

[markj]

Re: period guitar

Take a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=621&item=3286803212&rd=1

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[fidlr1]

Re: period guitar

Take a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=621&item=3286803212&rd=1

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

That's a real oddball! BTW, a good reference source is George Gruhn's
"Acoustic Guitars & Other Fretted Instruments"--covers guitars, banjos mandolins etc. from 1800-present.

[georgewunderlich]

Re: period guitar

There is some great information posted here. I do have a few additions of my own. I hope you find them useful.

The correct finish on the period guitar is in fact shellac as Mr Cheatam said. For most guitars the shellac is applied as "french polish". This usually means that other resins like sanderac or copal is also added to the shellac along with a touch of oil of spike. It may be applied as plain shellac as well. This depends on the sound desired. More shellac will make the guitar brighter. More sanderac will make it "darker". More copal makes the finish harder to resit wear more.

This mixture a first painted on the instrument body to fill the pores of the wood. Then pumice is used with a linseed or olive oil to level and fill even more. This polished the very fibres of the wood and the pumice filles the small imperfections. After this the resin is placed on a pad called a tampon. This is moved quickly over the surface of the wood in a fast motion that can not be allowed to stop while the pad is in contact with the wood. The heat of the friction transfers the resin in small quantities and leaves a mirror like finish. The result is a fairly thin, hard finish of high sheen.

Violins are done in a very different way, both then and now. Fine violins do not use shellac or any other hard resin but rather an oil varnish. The oil varnish is a combination of linseed oil, venitian turnpentine, regular turnpentine, oil of spike,and sometimes dragons blood (a plant resin). This is cooked and then aged for up to a year. Is is very elastic an not as hard as resin (more commonly called spirit varnish in the trade) varnish. If shellac is used at all is as a light final coat to give more shine. Many people ask why the neck of the violin is not finished. The reason is that the traditional varnishes become soft with body heat and get sticky. By oiling the wood of the neck rather than varnishing it this is prevented.

As far as tuners go everything said above is quite correct. Do not forget that many guitars of the period also had violin style tuners. These are underrepresented in the hobby but did exist on instruments that were of a cheaper cost. Even the instruments of Ashborn used a patented style of violin tuner on a number of his instruments. A photo of these tuners is available in the Gura / Bollman book, America's Instrument. I curretnly have an original in my shop that I am preparing to reproduce for an original in a Boston collection.

Also, not all guitars are lined. I own an 1854 Tilton and an 1840's no-name (made in New York but the name have been ruined by an old repair). The Tilton is rosewood and the other has curly maple back and sides . Neither are lined but both show the old french polish finish. The early one also had violin style pegs.

I hope this helps.

[aplett]

Re: period guitar

Hi,

There's a guy in Seattle who makes parlor guitars, they are pretty accurate, and since they are custom made, you can specify exactly how you would like it. Here's his website:
http://www.girdisguitars.com/index.html

Since they are custom made, they are probably a little pricey, but you'd get a better quality instrument than what you'd find in an antique shop. Not to mention easier to find.

Hope this helps!

-Brian Plett,
Drummer and Classical Guitarist,
Oregon Fife and Drum Corps
116th PVI, co B

[David Swarens]

Re: period guitar

Hello.

I also would encourage the use of a replica instrument, from a conservation perspective, but do compare work with period originals.

The maker referenced in the above post seems to make lovely instruments (and features a respected endorsement) but the instruments he features on his site do differ in significant ways from the guitars of the 19th century:

They are designed for use with steel strings (in use by turn of the century, but common only by the 1920s).

The bridges are of contemporary/modern design (with a few exceptions; the rectangular ones with "pyramid" ends are period appropriate, if contructed with a straight saddle, rather the the slanted, compensated one for steel strings. )

Modern style tuners, mostly on solid, rather than slotted heads (does illustrate some with slot heads). Solid headstocks were used sometimes, but with "pegs" (like on a violin, banjo, or flamenco guitar) not with machines.

Modern (style) trim and decoration, especially the sound hole "rosettes" and the curved ends on the fingerboards. There are a variety of "period" rosette styles, from simple strips to "mother of pearl" in black mastic, as well as marquetry.(though the sort used in modern classical guitars is also not correct).

So both the structure and the aesthetics are contemporary, in my view, rather than "historic," and they seem to be modern guitars inspired by the late 19th century/early 20th century makers' masterworks.

Again, they seem to be beautiful and well crafted instruments, and he would probably be able to produce a 19th century type instrument, such as those which inspire his "parlor " guitar line, but someone desiring a period style instrument would need to clearly specify that, and it would be different from the wares offered on the site.

Sometimes the "early guitars" are referred to as "Baroque" or "Romantic" guitars, so those might be terms to look for contemporary makers under.

I wish someone would make some simple mid century Ashborn, Panormo, Lacote, or Martin (etc.) style guitars!

And for a moderate price!

Heck, I wish someone would make some period style tuners, with "reverse" gears (I heard a rumor someone in Germany makes them, for pretty big money).
Great tuners are made for 1920s style high end mandolins now(with reverse gears even); can "Civil War" guitar machines be far behind? (yes, they can be far behind)

David Swarens

[Drygoods]

Re: period guitar

Here's another question for you David, what about weather changes and traveling with a guitar? I would think that with period style strings, it might need constant tuning? As you know Don brought his modern guitar but wouldn't play it during the public event. He plays well, but finding a good reproduction guitar book with 1840-60s songs would be useful, any thoughts on that one?
Mfr,
Judith Peebles

[Gil]

Re: period guitar

This may be of help to you it's a website in the UK that sells vintage restored instruments, I recently bought a vintage fretless banjo from them with the original case for £175 which is very good and the banjo is excellent.
They have period parlour guitars for very good prices.

https://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk

I hope this is of some help.

Gil Howard
Lazy Jacks Mess

[Robert Johnston]

Re: period guitar

Patrick,

One thing that no one has mentioned so far is the guitar case. Civil War period guitars (and up to the early 1900's) were carried in wooden cases called "coffin cases" (try http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-9027.htm if you'd like to see one). They don't provide nearly the protection of a modern case due to a complete lack of padding, just flannel glued directly to wood. However, in a reproduction coffin case some protective padding can be added without changing the appearance. I built a period guitar for a reenactor last year, and I insisted on building an authentic coffin case to go with it. There's nothing more anachonistic to me than a singer in authentic uniform or costume, playing a correct period instrument, but with a modern case in full view.

A lack of "gear on top" tuning machines can be addressed by mounting modern tuners upside down. You have to turn the keys the opposite way to tune the strings, but it's not really a big deal if it makes the guitar look right. The Waverly company makes some beautiful "three on plate" tuners with antique finish and excellent ivoroid buttons, and they can be mounted upside down for a period appearance.

Regarding the "half ice cream cone" heel, some guitars had that feature, but many CW period guitars had heels that look just like a modern steel-string guitar. I'm restoring a William Tilton 1856 guitar, and the neck and heel are almost identical to a modern 12 fret slotted head neck. One of the main things to keep in mind is that period guitars were small by today's standards. There are lots of pictures on the internet. The Martin guitar company in Nazareth Pennsylvania was one of the most famous guitar manufacturers during the Civil War, and you can find many examples of their early work (including Mark Twain's guitar).

Robert Johnston
Proud great great grandson of Pvt. Joseph Johnston, 91st PA. Volunteers