(Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

That is so cool. We know Hart taught "drum-bands," if not by the testimonials then certain by the vernacular nature of his music. So, if the Ancients are using what is essentially a Hart drumbeating 60+ years after he published it, that tells you something about its popularity (how well and how widespread it was known) right there (and also tells you something about the military roots of Ancient drumming).

Ain't history fun????????? I love it!

Susan Cifaldi

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

Here's the side by side music. I did this in like 5 minutes so there's probably a couple errors. But you should get the idea. 4ee7d5fe5a8e3.pdf

One of Howe's beats you could say is a "filled" version. Here's that one:

We used both of these beats on our CD for My Love She is but a Lassie Yet.

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

Well, not only am I a klutz with 2 left feet and not a drummer, I can't read the ABC notation. Which is why I loved your video (and the banjo player singing Rosalie the Prairie Flower)! I have to hear it to believe it.

Sometimes it sucks to be me. But only sometimes ;-)

Susan Cifaldi

[eric marten]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

I'd be very wary of considering Fennell, Ken Burns, Samuel Bayard, or the string bands that frequently attend events and make and sell the most cd's as authorities on period correct CW era music. Fennel, Burns and the string bands frequently use modern instruments that sound VERY 20th century. The fiddle and fiddle tune everyone knows from Burns' series are both inappropriately 20th century - and stand out like a sore thumb. Bayard's book is a wonderful collection of fiddle/fife tunes from 20th century Pennsylvania and West Virginia, but not original sources. Most of the string bands and "minstrel groups" use fiddles that are so totally inappropriate to CW reenacting, which is a shame, since there are some who do take it seriously. When you approach them on the field or otherwise at events, or when they are posing for pictures, the fiddlers usually try to hide their modern instruments and accessories (such as modern chin rests, shoulder rests, synthetic or steel strings, synthetic "tail-guts" and metal fine tuners) behind their beards or an article of clothing because they know they are inappropriate - but it doesn't work - the twangy metallic sound is pure 20th century. A shame, since real gut strings cost no more than the most popular brands of steel or synthetic (perlon) strings. One hopes that someday they will stop trying to deceive spectators, living history museum visitors, Civil War Ball participants, and their fellow reenactors.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

I have to hear it to believe it.

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

"I'd be very wary of considering Fennell, Ken Burns, Samuel Bayard, or the string bands that frequently attend events and make and sell the most cd's as authorities on period correct CW era music."

I think we all pretty much agree with this statement. The point that I was making is that you cannot study this music with a narrow focus. While Bayard was clearly a folklorist and not a historian, that does not rule out the inherent potential value of his collection in clarifying and/or contextualizing the raw data one collects from primary resources.

That being said, it is the duty of the researcher to evaluate his/her sources, be they primary or secondary, to determine their value and relevance to the subject at hand. I agree with Will's statement that Fennell's duties are awful, but that does not mean that his brass band presentation is just as bad, and hence I also agree with Joe. And if Sam Bayard recorded a fiddler playing a certain tune in 1932, I would not interpret that as evidence that Civil War fifers played it in 1862--however, should I find that tune in the appropriate period literature (such as a fife instruction book or a fifer's handwritten notebook) along with a couple of diary entries or letters mentioning its use in dance or to amuse the young ladies who had gathered to watch the troops march, then I would indeed argue that Bayard's identification of the tune 70 years later in the hills indicates a longevity that points to its original popularity.

This works backward, too. *Not* finding something in the aural repertory can indicate relative obscurity, even though you find it in a period source (I'm thinking of Alonzo Draper's melodies which, enticing as original compositions, simply sat on Ditson's store shelves while fifers were grabbing and paying for copies of Howe, Winner, et al).

Actually, everything has *some* value, if you approach it with an open mind. Some secondary sources might present lousy primary history, but they may lead you, through footnotes or bibliographic references, to some very important primary works (I found that out with Comiger and Morris's work on the Rev. War). Certainly the anachronisms you point out in recordings (and others that we might see on the field) are frustrating (sometimes I find them amusing, depending on my mood or how much Diet Coke I have had), but even these negative characteristics make such secondary sources useful, if only to illustrate the differences between their faulty presentation and the ideal one is striving to achieve.

Easy for me to say--I don't reenact--but I love the music and love to watch you guys (and gals) out there doing your thing and especially playing the music.

Susan Cifaldi

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

EXCELLENT!!!

Love the bass drummer's pose--is that Dee?

Susan Cifaldi

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

EXCELLENT!!!

Love the bass drummer's pose--is that Dee?

Susan Cifaldi

No, that's not Dee, and the person holding the bass beaters actually doesn't play the drums at all. The drum major in the photo, Steven, is our bass drummer.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

This works backward, too. *Not* finding something in the aural repertory can indicate relative obscurity, even though you find it in a period source

This is the point I was trying to make about some of the quickstep drumbeats in the manuals. We'll never know if most of that stuff was ever in the aural repertory. So even if you're playing a beat note-for-note from a manual, chances are it was never played at all 150 years ago.

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

Oh, I don't know if I would go that far, to say it was *never* played, note for note. Maybe sometimes?

Remember, printing was all over the place in the mid-nineteenth century. For us, that means (at least) two important things: 1) since it was relatively affordable, there was less need for fifers (and drummers) to write out tunes and beatings in manuscript form (like they did in the 18th c, when printing was too expensive to be readily affordable), and 2) publishers were in competition, so they were motivated to do what they could to attract the buyer. What better way than to give them the music they liked? Of course, they probably snuck in a few duds and a few personal favorites, too, but that doesn't mean these manuals are totally useless, it just means we have to be diligent in finding ancillary supportive evidence to justify the tunes we do pick and choose to play. (And it's a whole lot better than playing Crazy Army and paddy-flah-flahs. . . ) I mean, these fifers and drummers didn't buy these books and then toss them in the trash. We have to have some good faith that they were used, to some extent, and then broadened our research to see if we can figure out which parts were used most, and where, and when.

Yeah, it's entirely likely that not everything printed was played and certainly not always note for note, but what else do we have to go on. . . oh, I suppose we could examine the drumming styles and repertory of the Ancients (!) which in essence is the drummers' surviving "aural repertory, and adopt those aspects that we can agree, using period sources, were most likely to have flourished during that time ;-)

Actually, we are already doing that in a couple of ways. Will, you have already pointed out that the Ancient GILBH beating is uncannily similar to what is found in Hart for another tune, as is CT Half-Time (I love the Hart books). . . and even in that red herring, B&E, we can find the Ancients' Army 2/4. And Hart (did I say how much I love Hart?) shows us that the Ancient tradition of stock beats goes back to what he was teaching the mid-19th c drummers to do. . . heck, that concept goes back to 1797 and what Benjamin Clark taught *his* drummers. . .

Is that the Stephan that works at Colonial Wmsbrg?

Susan Cifaldi

[joewhitney]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

No, that's Stephan Southard. He talked about doing some stuff with us, but not yet.

"Bayard's book is a wonderful collection … but not original sources." Depends on what you would you call original. When Bayard collected the version from a fiddler who learned it from his "Great Uncle Uriah, born 1792", that's pretty original to me. We all have our personal standards of perfection, whether in degree or particulars. Of course, did Uriah pick it up in 1829 or 1866? How picky do you want to be? Ah, the age-old issue in reenacting: how authentic is authentic?

"Most of the string bands and "minstrel groups" use fiddles that are so totally inappropriate to CW reenacting". You talking hardcore Anders event or mega-event? "Inappropriate" depends on the setting. Which is better, for the public to hear the music, find it pleasing to their ears, remember it, and maybe buy a CD of it to take home and listen to again so they actually learn it, or with our modern ears used to perfection in engineered music to be turned off by all the instruments out of tune due to dampness, or the gut is too quiet to be heard among the crowds at a reenactment, or there are too many uses of the N word? If people don't like what they're hearing they'll soon walk away and forget what they were listening to, which defeats the purpose of playing and educating in the first place. But in the right venue, with people who value authentic sound over aesthetically pleasing sound, you have my favorite match of performers and audience!

Sue's point about historically fitting the music in context forward and backward is important. Just because something was printed in one manual in the late 1700's doesn't mean it was commonly played 1861-65, even though it "existed". Just because the earliest printed version of a tune only goes back to 1880 doesn't mean it was never played 1861-65. Just because it shows up once or twice doesn't mean it represents what would typically have been played. And just because it's only in one rare manual doesn't mean it never would have been played. How did the names Potomac and Rappahannock come to be associated with "Hell on the…" in the first place? Was it during the four years that hundreds of thousands of people spent fighting and camping along these rivers? Titles that become associated with the melodies are also clues we can use to guesstimate how popular the music might have been.

Yes, the state of Civil War music still has a ways to go before most people agree on exactly what, how, and how often music would have been played or sung, but the picture is infinitely more clearer than it was when I started reenacting 25 years at Manassas, and getting clearer thanks to the people on this forum.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

I mean, these fifers and drummers didn't buy these books and then toss them in the trash.

If those books sold for 50 or 75 cents, and the monthly wage was $13, I doubt they purchased many by themselves. Possibly a colonel would buy one for his regiment. But if they had a hard time coming up with a beat for Road to Boston, they probably wouldn't know how to read music anyway. I'm just saying that the odds of a lot of those unique beats being used are rather small, especially the ones that aren't balanced or aren't potentially useful as stock beats .

Stock beats are usually the best choice. A good example is the beat for Gilderoy. Compare the one in Howe's to the one in Hart's. Hart's Connecticut Halftime was probably well-known. The one in Howe's was probably rarely played. Howe literally used fiddle music in his fife manuals and could have just slapped on a drumbeat created on fly. Hart was a drummer. Did Howe have a drummer help him make his manual? In some instances it doesn't seem like he did. Several of the best beats in Howe's were ripped off from Keach. Many look like they were written by a non-drummer. Perhaps he got lucky with a few or picked some up by listening to drummers. But remember that most of those tunes were fiddle music copied directly from his earlier tutors. So if fifers didn't play them, then drummers didn't either. So maybe that's why many of those beats sound so artificial-- they may have been composed specifically for Howe's manual, possibly by a non-drummer.

It would be interesting to learn how Howe was able to copy much of Keach's work. Perhaps Keach cut a deal with Howe where he helped him out a little by coming up with drumbeats for his tunes and letting him use the majority of his books in exchange for a cut of the profits.

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

What do we know for sure? I have a couple of pre-war receipts for things like "please to give a drum, fife, role-book, and music to" for few CT, MA, and NH militia companies. Also, I have a couple of instruction books inscribed with names-while it doesn't prove who bought them, it does indicate the person who owned and presumably used them. We see ads in the newspapers and ads on the covers of the books themselves--I don't think Oliver Ditson, Hall & Son, etc. managed to stay in business without selling a few of these things that they advertised for sale. I think we can safely assert that these books were indeed bought and sold and therefore used by enough military fifers and drummers for the music to become/remain known in a more or less stable form--much of which was drawn from (in the case of Howe) or, by repeated use ended up in the aural repertory.

I think we have beat the can-the-common-folk-read-music question to death in another thread, but I would venture to guess that in post-Lowell Mason America, a working knowledge of music-reading was quite common, probably as an adjunct to aural learning, though, in this context.

BTW, one of us who has the time (!) and the computer skill (hint, hint) should look up quartermaster records at Carlisle to see if music books are mentioned.

Someone did a study on Howe a few years back, maybe the answer to your Keach question lies there.

Susan Cifaldi

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

Maybe I was a little hard on Howe's. There are several good beats in there that I forget about. But there are also quite a few that just seem like, what's the word...filler...beats that probably wouldn't have been picked up and spread around among drum corps because they were bland and weren't worth memorizing. Again, I'm talking about drumbeats. Howe did pick up his fife tunes from the aural repertory...of fiddlers.

But all this about the aural repertory...I think much of time we are thinking about this backwards. The tunes and beats didn't become well-known and popular as a result of the manuals as much as the authors of the manuals attempted to capture what was already floating around. If anything in the manuals was composed by the authors for use in their publications then those selections would not be representative of what was actually played. A good example: the stick beat for the Girl I Left Behind Me in B&E.

[Sue]

Re: (Dan) Emmett's Standard Drummer Manuscript - In the Gilderoy

I wrote about this very topic, both in my B&E paper and in the Alonzo Draper paper. The fifers' repertory is a special breed for a lot of reasons, but it was and to some extent remains highly aural. And lots of it is borrowed, it's only relatively recently that people have started writing tunes specifically for fife. The historical exception, of course, is Draper, and he failed miserably, not because he lacked talent or his tunes lacked appeal, it was because of the inherent traditional nature of the fifers' repertory--it carries a lot of emotional baggage that other instrumental repertories simply do not.

IDK, I think it's fun to look at each book and figure out what the compiler was trying to do with his repertory--there's old stuff, new stuff, and tons of stuff in between. . .

Susan Cifaldi