B and E PDF ?

[Alan Lloyd]

Friends

Does anyone have a PDF of Bruce and Emmett? How about Nevin's?

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Friends

Does anyone have a PDF of Bruce and Emmett? How about Nevin's?

Nevins is on archive.org. Search for nevins drum fife. I think it might be missing a couple pages. You might be able to find the missing ones at fifedrum.org. Let me know if you can't. By the way, Nevins appears to have copied most of Klinehanse. There are too many similarities for it to be a coincidence.

The individual pages of B&E are on fifedrum.org

[joewhitney]

Re: B and E PDF ?

I made a PDF out of B&E but it's 15 megs, maybe too big to post. I'll see.

To get an almost complete Nevins you need to download two versions, as each is missing several pages:

http://www.archive.org/details/armyregulationsf00nevi

(missing pages 25-28)

http://www.archive.org/details/armyregulationsf00nevi

(1861 edition, missing page 27 and entire drum section as on fifedrum.org)

Anybody have page 27 they could share with the class? Anyone? Bueller??

It said Nevins was the Drum Major for "McClellan's Bodyguard". Initially this was the Sturges Rifles. Odd thing is they were an unattached company of initially 81 men expanded to 158 men, which normally warrants a drummer and fifer, not a corps with a drum major. Of course other companies may have been included in the general headquarters force. Considering they belonged to the commanding general of the greatest army of the Republic, I'd assume they probably had a pretty damn good drum corps. McClellan ordered them mustered out in late 1862 (btw later the title "McClellan's Bodyguard" was associated with a troop riding grey horses, also called "McClellan's Dragoons", that always accompanied the General.)

Joe WHitney
2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps
Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[Sue]

Re: B and E PDF ?

I think I'm in love. . Thanks, Joe!!!!

Ain't this site grand????????

Susan Cifaldi

[joewhitney]

Re: B and E PDF ?

...and here's what they looked like (including one sitting on a drum, as I am want to do on occasion, to the consternation of my compadres):

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1861/october/cynthiana-kentucky.htm

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[Sue]

Re: B and E PDF ?

depends on the drum.

I have been known to throw fifes into bonfires, but only "handcrafted maple fifes." I figure I am doing the world a favor by keeping them off ebay, where they are sold as "genuine fife from the [insert War of Your Choice here], found in 96-year-old lady's attic!"

Susan Cifaldi.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Take a look at this comparison and tell me if you think Nevins had a copy of Klinehanse's manual:



Nevins even copied the left-handed 7 stroke roll in Drummer's Call from Klinehanse. They're breaking their own rule that 7 stroke rolls are always right-handed.

Sometimes I wonder if the authors of many of these manuals really knew what they were talking about. They had to resort to borrowing/copying from others, including errors. One would think that an "expert" drummer who knew the duty and rudiments would be able to lay down his own system as he would teach it himself.

So you have to take some of these manuals with a grain of salt, realizing that many of the duty calls included might have been almost as new to the authors as the pupils.

[Sue]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Will, how did you do that? Make the image, I mean. That was beautiful!

I might add that the left-handed 7s in the Benjamin Clark (1797) ms appear to be intentional. Not that I am a drummer or anything, so you may want to take a look for yourself (they are in the drags), but that's my understanding. . .

Otherwise, don't forget Mark Twain's (alleged) advice: "Be careful of reading health books, you may die of a misprint." Meaning, the error may have originated with a sloppy (or non-drumming) compositor and survived due to careless proofing on the part of the compiler.

Except in the case of Levi Lovering. . . from what I have found, that guy was definitely dyslexic and probably ADHD besides.

Susan Cifaldi

[joewhitney]

Re: B and E PDF ?

It's true some manuals said 7 Roll's were not to be played hand-to-hand, even if they taught the pupil to practice them that way. But in the "Old Style Notation", which Klinehanse in 1854, Nevins in 1861 & 64 and Ryan's True Drum Instructor 1872 used, the last two 7 Roll-Flams/7 Roll-Taps of Drummer's Call were beat hand-to-hand.

Maybe the musicians who lent their name to the manuals figured the printing plates were "close enough" to what they knew was regularly played. Hard to say. One thing's for sure, they had staying power, since they were used from 1854 to 1872.

Howe used hand-to-hand Tap-Flams, whereas, Keach and Simpson used 4 Roll-Flams. Strube did not specifically show whether those 7 Roll's at the end were left or right handed, but did show that the Taps that went with them were hand-to-hand. Hart showed Flam-7 Roll-Flam, with the flams hand-to-hand. Only B&E showed te ending as specifically not beat hand-to-hand.

Here's how the manuals ended "Police" Drummer's Call by group:

1854 Klinehanse 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)
1861-64 Nevins 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)
1861-64 B&E 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (not hand-to-hand)
1870 Strube 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (Taps are hand-to-hand)
1872 Ryan 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)

1861 Simpson 4 Roll-Flam 4 Roll-Flam (can't tell)
1861 Keach 4 Roll-Flam 4 Roll-Flam (can't tell)

1862 Howe Tap-Flam Tap-Flam (hand-to-hand)

1862-64 Hart Flam-7 Roll-Flam (Flams are hand-to-hand)

I say "Police Drummer's Call" as opposed to the "Drummer's Call", since that was what the beat was called in many manuals, including those showing "Drummer's Call" as basically the same one beat in the mid-1700's (and "on the drag" versions or 3/4 time versions being used for "Band Call"). B&E says the old beat was no longer played in the army, only in the Navy (assuming that meant regular US army).

So I'd say it was probably pretty common among all field musicians (perhaps more likely militia) for those last two rudiments of (Police) Drummer's Call to be beat hand-to hand, whether 7 Roll-Taps, 4 Roll-Flams or Tap-Flams.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[Sue]

Re: B and E PDF ?

you've convince me ;-) thanks for the detailed analysis.

Susan Cifaldi

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Nevins obviously copied much of Klinehanse. Ryan used the same plates as Nevins. It is the exact same manual with a different cover.

Those are the only manuals that have the left-handed 7 stroke roll, but that is only one single roll in Drummer's Call, and it contradicts the instructions at the beginning of those manuals that 7 stroke rolls are always right-handed. But you can treat them all as one manual since Ryan copied Nevins who copied Klinehanse.

So you really only have one example of 7s being played left-handed and it is probably an error.

Klinehanse probably made an error. Then Nevins copied that error. Then Ryan used the same plates as Nevins.

This is the problem with using the manuals as an authority on drumming of the period. There are errors in all of them, many of the compilers of the drum manuals copied from each other (including errors), many even went as far to use the same plates (Howe used Keach's plates too). Simpson and Canterbury knew Keach, Burditt, and Cassidy (they were all from Boston) so those 2 manuals are very similar.

We're trying to determine what the tens of thousands of drummers in the war played, and we're relying on a very small sample. And it's an even smaller sample if you realize that

1) Howe, Keach-Burditt-Cassidy, Simpson-Canterbury all represent the same school
2) Klinehanse, Nevins, Ryan are all basically the same
3) Bruce and Emmett is unique
4) Hart is unique
5) Strube served from 1861-63

So even if 3 manuals agree on something, that is not enough evidence to support its use. You have to do more than take the manuals at face value.

If you were to consider any of the above to be authorities on drumming from 1861-65 it would have to be Strube because he actually served as a drummer in the war. Klinehanse could probably be considered an authority in 1853 (but his handwritten manual is full of errors, 3 Camps for example).

All the others should be thought of 1 drummer out of 40,000. In some cases (Klinehanse, Nevins, Ryan) they might be thought of as 1/3 of a drummer out of 40,000.

We simply don't have enough information to determine what was common. And drummers don't play things that don't make sense, like playing a 7 stroke roll backwards, no matter what the "authorities" say.

7 stroke rolls are played LLRRLLR at least 99% of the time if you assume they are played RRLLRRL for one single roll in one single beat (Drummer's Call). Otherwise they're played LLRRLLR 100% of the time.

And Sue, you were thinking about 9 stroke rolls from Clark, not 7s.

It's true some manuals said 7 Roll's were not to be played hand-to-hand, even if they taught the pupil to practice them that way. But in the "Old Style Notation", which Klinehanse in 1854, Nevins in 1861 & 64 and Ryan's True Drum Instructor 1872 used, the last two 7 Roll-Flams/7 Roll-Taps of Drummer's Call were beat hand-to-hand.

Maybe the musicians who lent their name to the manuals figured the printing plates were "close enough" to what they knew was regularly played. Hard to say. One thing's for sure, they had staying power, since they were used from 1854 to 1872.

Howe used hand-to-hand Tap-Flams, whereas, Keach and Simpson used 4 Roll-Flams. Strube did not specifically show whether those 7 Roll's at the end were left or right handed, but did show that the Taps that went with them were hand-to-hand. Hart showed Flam-7 Roll-Flam, with the flams hand-to-hand. Only B&E showed te ending as specifically not beat hand-to-hand.

Here's how the manuals ended "Police" Drummer's Call by group:

1854 Klinehanse 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)
1861-64 Nevins 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)
1861-64 B&E 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (not hand-to-hand)
1870 Strube 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (Taps are hand-to-hand)
1872 Ryan 7 Roll-Tap 7 Roll-Tap (hand-to-hand)

1861 Simpson 4 Roll-Flam 4 Roll-Flam (can't tell)
1861 Keach 4 Roll-Flam 4 Roll-Flam (can't tell)

1862 Howe Tap-Flam Tap-Flam (hand-to-hand)

1862-64 Hart Flam-7 Roll-Flam (Flams are hand-to-hand)

I say "Police Drummer's Call" as opposed to the "Drummer's Call", since that was what the beat was called in many manuals, including those showing "Drummer's Call" as basically the same one beat in the mid-1700's (and "on the drag" versions or 3/4 time versions being used for "Band Call"). B&E says the old beat was no longer played in the army, only in the Navy (assuming that meant regular US army).

So I'd say it was probably pretty common among all field musicians (perhaps more likely militia) for those last two rudiments of (Police) Drummer's Call to be beat hand-to hand, whether 7 Roll-Taps, 4 Roll-Flams or Tap-Flams.

Joe Whitney
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36525[/ATTACH]2nd SC String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Strube did not specifically show whether those 7 Roll's at the end were left or right handed, but did show that the Taps that went with them were hand-to-hand.

If I recall correctly, Strube puts left-handed rolls on the top of the staff, and right-handed rolls on the bottom of the staff. There is one exeption, however. 7 stroke rolls are on the middle of the staff, because they are always played right-handed.

[joewhitney]

Re: B and E PDF ?

Correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think Strube specifically said always play 7 stroke rolls, or 10's or 11's or 15's for that matter, from left or right---he just showed them that way, and not the others, in the lessons.

But I wouldn't be surprised if by 1870 some standardization had finally come along, especially in the regular army which Strube said his music represented. The nonprofessional militia during the Civil War, and the civilian drumming world prior to and after the Civil War, were probably a different matter. Yeah, buglers with one standardized system got it easy!

Joe Whitney
2nd South Carolina String Band
Liberty Hall Drum & Fife Corps

[joewhitney]

Re: B and E PDF ?

...meant "from left TO right".

[Sue]

Re: B and E PDF ?

see, I *told* you I'm not a drummer ;-)

What makes Hart so special (to me) is that his music has the ring of truth--not only did he advertise as a teacher of drum-bands, the music in his book smacks of being streetwise. The testimonials are just the gravy on top, considering who wrote them and the drum corps (and bands) they reflected.

Did I say there was only one thing good about Hart? I lied, there's so much more, such as of the 4 issues that survive, 3 of them show how he did indeed proof and correct previous editions. One of them has handwritten corrections that he did indeed bring out in his last edition, which was obviously just post war, even though all 4 of them are dated 1862).

Susan Cifaldi