Help needed with drum part for Hart's "Rogue's March"

[jkdrinkard]

I'm attempting to write Hart's "Rogue's March" in modern drum notation. 2/4 time I can do with little difficulty but this is in 6/8 time and it's kicking my rear. Anyone please have a look at what I've done and let me know if it's right, wrong, close, way off, etc. To me it looks like the 7 stroke rolls should be pick-ups leading into the next measure but the fife part says otherwise.

PDF file is here

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Help needed with drum part for Hart's "Rogue's March"

Kyle,

I like that you are trying to put some beats from the old manuals in modern notation. It is a difficult task.

I have some thoughts on interpreting beats in general. There are different things you may want to try to figure out:

1) How the author of the manual played it or intended it to be played
2) How the beat could be interpreted according to the notation, rules, and instructions given in the manual
3) How drummers using the manual 150 years ago could have played it
4) How drummers who didn't have any manuals actually played a particular well-known beat (like Rogue's March)

I am of the opinion that none of the systems of notation used in the old manuals can accurately convey what the author was trying to teach. Hart probably tried a little harder, but ending up ultimately failing. So without a time machine we will never truly know the answer to question 1. Now if you're trying to figure out the answer to question 2, you should also realize that it might be different than 3 or 4. That is, a strict interpretation of the notation might not be how drummers actually played it, which is really the thing drummers in this hobby should be trying to figure out. In other words, who cares what a handful of drummers like Hart, Keach, and Bruce played...what did the thousands of drummers in the army play? Unfortunately the manuals are really all we have, but we mustn't lose sight of the fact that they don't tell the whole story.

It is very difficult for a person to interpret one beat from one manual, treating it as if it exists in a vacuum. You have to look at other manuals at the same time. So even without consulting the rules given for Hart's notation, right off the bat you should assume that the first 7 stroke roll (as you first suspected) indeed starts as a pick up with the final tap being the downbeat. In fact, all the other manuals always have 7 stroke rolls ending on beat 1 or 2 in 2-4 time and on beat 1 or 4 in 6-8 time.

I've attached the "literal" interpretation and a different version showing how I think it probably was actually played, judging by the beats in other manuals and the fife melody. Sorry there are no bar lines in it. I use ABC notation and you can't get the 7 stroke roll pickup notes to work with that system.

Hart does have some errors in his manual. So with some beats, unless you realize this, it will be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I think all the errors in Hart's book, along with the fact that is very difficult for people today to interpret even some of the error-free beats in Hart's book, says a lot about how little use Hart's manual would be to drummers 150 years ago. I can imagine the frustration they had back then. In the end, nothing beats the rote system. What use is drum music to someone who doesn't know how to drum anyway? The drummer who helped with the music for Gen. Churchill's manual evidently agreed:

"Any drummer who has learnt to beat the drum properly will know at once the proper beats for all the above national airs and for those who have not so learnt the drum, the notes would be superfluous as they would not be understood." (Emphasis mine)

Amen to that!

harts-rogue-literal2.pdf

harts-rogue-corrected2.pdf

[jkdrinkard]

Re: Help needed with drum part for Hart's "Rogue's March"

Thank you Will! This one really had me stumped. I was having a total mental block and just couldn't make it work. I too have noticed that Hart's has some errors. I transcribed " Downfall of Paris" and after the pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth, I realized there were two rests present that didn't belong. Once I ignored them everything fell into place. Very frustrating these days, as I'm sure it was then.
And you're absolutely right about us not knowing how these parts were actually played. With the different systems of notation in place and the various manuals available, what the authors intended and what was actually being played were most likely not the same. And of course that makes it impossible for us to know exactly what was being played, as well. It all comes down to interpretation and relating it back to the fife melody.

[jkdrinkard]

Re: Help needed with drum part for Hart's "Rogue's March"

From Hart's manual:

“Rogue’s March” – Fife and Drum Combined, Fife Only, Drum Only

I have a midi file of the fife part but am unable to attach it.