Guitar players, listen up.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

I was thinking more about musicians in general, not just "minstrels" . There were thousands of individual fiddlers. I wonder what the ratio of fiddlers was to minstrel troupes? 1000:1?

From what I've seen in the antibellum minstrel experience, it's the banjo out front and accompanied by violin. The banjo was the star. As the pitch went up, the violin stepped to the front with the banjo doing the accompanying. Violin became the star.

As for calling the instrument a violin or a fiddle, I'll leave that issue to someone else far more learned in the area than I'll ever be. The instrument looks the same to me. However, I did a quickie search in a couple songsters for the word, violin, and came up empty. Fiddle popped right up. I'll be more careful in my terminology and end with the lyrics from this oldie :



Song : The Band of [Fellers] from 'Old Virginny State'
Source : Howe's The Ethiopian glee book : containing the songs sung by the Christy Minstrels (1849), page 20.
Link : http://archive.org/stream/ethiopiang...ge/n3/mode/2up

[Silas]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

Are saying there's music other than minstrel? Blasphemy!

From all the flyers and photos I've seen, there's usually a fiddler in the group. However the instrument which started the minstrel movement was - wait for it - the banjo. It was all the rage. There are so many songs which mention somebody stepping to the front to play his banjo or seranading a woman by the music of the banjo or even using it as a sail or paddle. The fiddle doesn't get anywhere near the love in the lyrics or the compilations of music as the banjo does.

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

Your statement about fiddlers would get you killed in some parts of West Virginia today. Banjo not get the love a fiddle player would get? You must be touched!

Still, was the minstrel banjo the rage all across the board during the 1860's, or in certain circles that were very vocal, namely the pop culture of the day? I can only speak historically for my area of country, but the fiddle seems to have been a highly respected instrument to play and a deeply traditional one, going back at least before the Civil War. Banjo was important, but playing one did not have nearly the prestige that being a fiddler brought.

[Mutt]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

Sic Semper Fiddlerious!
Kidding! Just had to say it! I'm enjoying this discussion and can't help but wonder what it was like back then between musicians. I agree very much with the idea that there are groups "playing period music" that are, but aren't. The authenticity stops at the clothing (of course, somes times there isn't even that aspect), music was bought online, probably a "Songs of the Civil War" types book, Fender, Deering, etc. brought out and they're playin "period music" and booked for gigs on sutler row and in taverns. It's all pretty sad to me and I'm glad that more and more folks are willing to change, starting off doing as correctly as possible and simply talking about the topic rather than pretending resources don't exist simply because they aren't being sold by a sutler.

I want to have an opinion, being a minstrel banjo player, on the "which instruments was more liked, hled in higher regard etc. etc." but I won't as I know too many of each and have much respect for anyone who does something I cannot.

Best,

[David Swarens]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

Hello.

An early post asked "what do you think," so I will take liberties and not cite sources, and mostly say "what I think".

I think this music is pretty snappy and quite dancey, and can well imagine it, or its ilk, being popular.

Even more than now music was zoned by many contexts, including setting, race, and gender.
There was "home" music, music of the stage, and music for dancing.

In the rural South there were the "old love songs" (ballads) and dance music, and banjer songs.

As I recall from many oral histories, the guitar was a relatively late introduction to the upland South, and many musicianeers active in the mid 20th century had memories of a time before it was common, if known, in rural dance music ("string bands").

But long after it became one of the "big three" (fiddle banjo guitar), and even after it was commonly strung with wire, it was still played in a similar style, with the fingers.

I believe the pick/plectrum came a generation later to the guitar than it did to the banjo, in rural Southern string bands in the "30's or later; even some early Bluegrass guitarists kept picks out of their hands.
And probably came from players of that instrument, along with the 14 fret neck and shorter body of the "modern" guitar (google Martin OM or "orchestra model guitar"for a discussion of some of that dynamic).

Ironically the "guitar style" had taken over the banjo in the mid 19th century, with players plucking the strings rather than striking them ("Legitimate banjo style" or "stroke" playing)

But having said that, I could certainly hear guitar played in that manner not only in the parlour, but on the stage or the bandstand.

In any time, the available technology will define and characterize, even "limit", expression of culture, but I find this playing pleasant to my ear, and also believe that if guitar was present in a setting, it would have sounded somewhat like this.

Keeping them from getting busted is another storey.

In Mexican California, before the Mexican War, guitar and violin were the staple pair for parlor and dance music both.

We often play for (period) dancers, and find in practice, as well as opinion, that this general type of guitar playing is not only appropraite but effective!


Best wishes.
David Swarens

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Guitar players, listen up.

Well said, David. Certainly this style of guitar music would be appropriate in the proper living history setting. But I suppose it's also just the nature of musicians to want to hear or play something unique and different, and it's hard to resist the urge to, musically speaking, wear the "jaguar skin trousers" rather than the fatigue blouse.

I personally would like to see more musicians delving into the tunes that are not well-known today but were well-known 150 years ago rather than resurrecting the tunes that were not very well-known 150 years and playing them so much that they become too well-known to reenactors today.

I know it's happened with fifers in the last 20 years. Most reenactors who are just the least bit familiar with fife and drum music will recognize Hell on the Wabash, Hog-Eye Man, and Fireman's Quickstep, but these tunes were probably very seldom played during the war.

So to get back to the original posting and Carl's wish that "more reenacting guitar players would get in to this kind of stuff", I both agree and disagree. Leaving the dreadnoughts at home is a good idea, but wandering around from camp to camp at an event and seeing several guitarists sitting around the campfire playing polkas might not be much better. While it's true that polkas were popular, as David stated "Even more than now music was zoned by many contexts, including setting, race, and gender", to which I would add social class and background. City slickers may have dug the polka, whereas farm boys probably were more familiar with jigs and reels.