Minstrel Music CDs

[MO-Pard]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

After the great minstrel show at Perryville, I have been trying to track down some of the Allendale Melodian's CD's. Something to supplant the songs continuosly playing in my head.

I know Chris at Carter & Jasper had carried them, but he's sold out.

Anyone point me to where we can still get these?

Best Regards

[crabby]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Although not listed on our web site yet, we do carry the Allendale Melodians' CD 'Gentlemen Be Seated' and also 'Professor Sable's Songster' CD. The songster includes a booklet with the words to all the songs on the CD.
As a warning, both of these CD's contain the original words that some might find offensive. They are however the songs heard at Perryville, plus a few more.

Please contact us for more information,

John & Beth Crabb
Ezra Barnhouse Goods

[MO-Pard]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Thank you, so much for the direction. I do now remember seeing them outside your store where I bought a Harpers and some of Terre's fine yarn. I remember wanting a couple other items and the next day the cd's, but just didn't have the money on hand. Then upon arrival home, found a wad stashed way in my tail pockets. Was bummed, but it was also nice to come home from an event with money!


"Period" and not the modern "Politically Correct" are the only way I would go, but thank you for kindly pointing that out. In this instance, period ensures the sale.

I, and I am certain many others, will be contacting you shortly!

Thank you.


Best Regards

[crabby]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Jay,

And they are already contacting us!!!

Crabby

[Horton]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

I also recomend 2nd South carolina and also Marty Libshner(<--misspelled). His website is www.minstrelbanjos.com.

[dahoude]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Jay,

If Minstrel Music is your passion, I'd recommend that you check out our offerings as well. We have a large selection of period correct perfomances of Antebellum era songs and music, including "The Free and Accepted Minstrels of Old New Orleans", "The Canebrake Minstrels", "The Camptown Shakers", "Marty Libschner", and many others. Just go to our website at http://www.orchardhillsutlery.com and click on the Period Music link.

Best Regards;

Dan

[BenjaminLDavis]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Hey all,

I will merely be seconding some of those already listed: I find these CDs both
superb and indispensable - the Free And Accepted Mistrels of Old New Orleans,
(self-titled); the Canebrake Minstrels - "Finer than frog hair;" 2nd Carolina
String Band - "In High Cotton;" the Camp Lincoln String Band - "Counting
Stitches;" the Gum Springs Serenaders - "Nelly Was a Lady." I also own 3
of Marty L.'s fine CDs, as well as 3 penny whistles he sent me (I hope to learn
how to play them over the winter, I tormented my comrades with one until they
threatened breakage/burning less'n I stop forthwith!) And penny whistles are
cheap and period correct.
Though it is not minstrel music, I would also encourage you to pick up some
music from the Old Country, comes in handy with many impressions. David
Kincaid has a couple of excellant CDs out there on the Irish-American's songs.

One final thought: period banjo strings were made out of catgut, and had
a sound close to the thick acoustic strings of today - if you hear metal
strings on a "period" CD, beware. Good luck in your quest to learn some
new songs to sing round the fire; just last season, I added "Annie Laurie"
to my mental songbook, and it has become one of my favorites (I share
this with JEB Stuart!)

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

You can't beat the Camptown Shakers, in my book. Their latest CD, "Shakedown" is one of the best recordings I have ever heard, and there's alot of great, obscure, and weird stuff on there. Great musicianship, and an impeccably authentic sound!

[Danny]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Bryan -

If no one has directed you there already, go to

http://www.milfordmusic.com/Banjo%20Audio.htm

to hear and download (wma format) some remarkable Minstrel material by advanced amateurs and some pros, mostly played in the fashion of CW period banjo tutors, and by people interested as much by history as music.

btw The 2nd Carolina recent stuff - In High Cotton etc - is good if you want to catch the real spirit of period play, even though, by expert accounts, much is not played at a period tempo. (Perhaps because they want their CDs to sell today. Period tempo is quite slow and metered by today's standards. But who's to say that a particular soldier player wouldn't have played faster?)

I have most of the 2nd S. Car. CD's because they do sound so well. Be also advised that their earlier material - Southern Soldier etc. - in addition to being too fast a tempo for period, is not either played on period instruments. In particular the banjo is not gut-stringed. The band has moved to more authentic only recently.

The other CD's mentioned here, and any of Partner's material, I agree are a good bet for authentic sound as is.

- Dan Wykes

[Danny]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

I second Early Minstrel Banjo CD as a must include.

- Dan Wykes

[joewhitney]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Fraid I'll have to take some small exception to a couple of comments. "Period tempo" is a nebulous term, because generally no metronome markings were used in the printed material. Even if they had been, the majority of musicians did not have access to printed tutors, and learned by ear. Consequently, we don't really know exactly what tempos were used for specific tunes, so one person's take is as good as another's. General descriptions of "fast", "slow" and "moderate" are too vague to accurately quantify.

Many today believe minstrel music should be played very slow because the first person to sell recordings of it, Joe Ayres, played very slow. However, I've been told Joe said he didn't base his style on any actual documentation, he just played it the way he liked it. I suspect that was common back then as well.

Human nature hasn't changed over the centuries. As musicians become proficient, they tend to see how fast they can play, because it's more challenging, has more energy, and makes the audience more enthusiastic. We know that other types of music from the period, brass band, fife and drum, classical orchestra, etc. often played pieces very fast. Can you conceive of the Fireman's Quickstep or Rossini's William Tell Overture being played slow? Could there be any good reason why of all period instruments the banjo alone was to be played slow, even by those with many years of experience on it?

Certainly, the type of music should affect the tempo. Few would find sentimental pieces like My Old Kentucky Home or Hard Times pleasing when played very fast. But Old Zip Coon wouldn't have the same zip if played at a plodding pace, and Brigg's Breakdown wouldn't inspire dancers to kick up their heels if it just dragged along. The last is an important point because much of this music was meant as an accompaniment for dancing, both for couples in the ballroom and for individual performers of what is called "clogging" today.

An excellent indicator of how much styles might have varied is music from Ireland. On this little island, the huge variety of regional tempos and playing styles that once existed shows how eclectic folk music was in the pre-recording age. But sadly, with the advent of recording technology, many of these styles are disappearing, as certain recordings become popular and eventually dominate the music scene. Today, we can only guess at how varied American minstrel music styles were, especially before the Civil War, but I suspect it was as rich and diverse as Irish music styles once were.

As for the 2nd Carolina String Band, generally, our banjos are in fact gut stringed. On occasion, Joe Ewers will pull out his ca. 1880's metal-stringed Stewart banjo for a couple of tunes ("cause he likes the sound), but he always explains to listeners that it was the postwar successor to the fretless minstrel banjo. This is especially appropriate on "Angelina Baker" where we show the progression of American music by medleying the Civil War version to the Appalachian, and Joe does a quick-change to the postwar banjo in the middle. For the record, metal strings had existed for some time, but were not in common usage yet.

As for the rest of our instruments, I play a ca.1850's Firth, Hall & Pond flute (just like Stephen Foster's), an 1813 Hicks snare drum and an 1850's Klemm bass drum. Our guitar is an 1850's Martin prototype, the fiddles are original or authentic reproductions, and of course the bones, tambos, triangle and cow jawbone are original or authentic reproductions. Greg plays a two-piece D fife which, while not widely produced here, were being reproduced in England during the period.

By the way, over time we have made efforts to improve the authenticity of our arrangements by incorporating those found in the existing sheet music that was starting to be widely published, typically piano and guitar scores for the parlor. These can give us some hints on arrangements minstrel ensembles might have made when presenting the music to larger audiences.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md. Line Field Music

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Joe,

Quite agree. Especially within traditional Irish music, you had the Sligo style of flute playing, the East Galway, and the more recent piping style as played by Matt Molloy and Seamus Egan. Recording have "blurred the borders," though of course, one's playing can still take on those regional characteristics if the particular musician they're studying plays solely that style.

I saw you playing with the 2nd at Gettysburg this year. I was working the Gibson tent with Speedy and Terry, and caught sight of your flute and wondered if it was an original! It certainly caught my eye. The Firth and Ponds have smaller tone holes, don't they? How's the sound on it? Anything near the bark of a Ruddall/Rose or Pratten?

Cheers!

[Danny]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Joe -

You are at the point I was on this topic a few years back, but with further study in that area I have come to the conclusion that, in fact, human nature has changed a bit over time. I now believe that for us of the rock n' roll generation it is just too hard to accept that the notion of fast tempo in CW times was likely quite different than what we consider fast tempo to be today. The popular songs were well-enunciated and full-voiced in emulation of the stage performances of the time, and the words simply need to fit a reasonable tempo.

Still, I allowed that a particular group of players, perhaps Minstrels, of the time had their own dynamics, and I concede that quick-steps and reels, instrumentals, were likely played at a faster tempo.

BTW, was it 2nd S. Carolina String Band, who performed many years ago in a documentary (or local station feature) on a South Carolina television station? I have a sound cassette of it, made for me by my sister in Charleston, but is of marginal sound quality -- too bad because the rendition of "Soldier's Joy" in that segment was rousing, in fact astounding! Your available recordings don't cover it that way (I have nearly all of them) I would love to find or borrow the VHS of that session were it available.

- Dan Wykes

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Some primary source clues to period tempos, from observations at Pete Williams' Dance Hall, in the Five Points, home of the famous Master Juba, William Henry Lane. From New York by Gaslight by George Foster, 1850:

"It is Saturday night, and the company begins assembling early, for Saturday night is a grand time for thieves, loafers, prostitutes, and rowdies, and well as for honest, hard-working people. Already the room – a large desolate looking place, with white-washed walls garnished with wooden benches is half full of men and women, among whom the latter at this hour predominate. Later there will be pretty nearly a numerical equilibrium established – for the “friends of the house” are out in all directions picking up recruits.

In the middle of one side of the room a shammy platform is erected, with a trembling railing, and this is the “orchestra” of the establishment. Sometimes a single black fiddle answers the purpose; but on Saturday nights the music turns out strong, and the house entertains, in addition, a trumpet and a bass drum. With the instruments you may imagine the music at Dickens’s Place is of no ordinary kind. You cannot, however, begin to imagine what it is. You cannot see the red hot knitting-needles spirted out by the red-faced trumpeter, who looks precisely as if he were blowing glass, which needles aforesaid penetrating the tympanum, pierce through and through your brain without remorse. Nor can you perceive the frightful mechanical contortions of the bass-drummer as he sweats and deals his blows on every side, in all violation of the laws of rhythm, like a man beating a baulky mule and showering his blows upon the unfortunate animal, now on this side, now on that. If you could, it would be unnecessary to write.

…And now the orchestra strikes up “Cooney in de Holler” and the company “cavorts to places.” Having taken their positions and saluted each other with the most ludicrous exaggeration of ceremony, the dance proceeds for a few moments in tolerable order. But soon the excitement grows – the dancers begin contorting their bodies and accelerating their movements, accompanied with shouts of laughter and yells of encouragement and applause, until all observance of the figure is forgotten and every one leaps, stamps, screams, and hurras on his or her own hook. Affairs are now at their height. The black leader of the orchestra increases the momentum of his elbow, and calls out the figure in convulsive efforts to be heard, until shining streams of perspiration roll in cascades down his ebony face; the dancers now wild with excitement, like Ned Buntline at Astor Place, leap frantically about like howling dervishes, clasp their partners in their arms, and at length conclude the dance in hot confusion and disorder. As soon as things have cooled off a little each cavalier walks up to the bar, pays his shilling for the dance, and the floor is cleared for a new set; and so goes on the night.”

From: George Foster, New York by Gaslight (Berkeley: University of California Press, originally printed 1850, this edition 1990) 141-143.

[joewhitney]

Re: Minstrel Music CDs

Unfortunately, Edison hadn't invented his wonderful recording device yet, so without metronome markings, we can't know what tempo they actually played at. But I can tell you rock and roll didn't invent the fast tempo in popular music. Some of the earliest 20th century recordings of folk music, both American and British Isles, shows that often instrumental tunes were played at very fast tempos.

Now as for songs, yes, if words are involved you generally play slower. In fact, one old-time tradition that has survived is to wrap up a song by playing just the melody at a faster clip. We do that with Old Zip Coon, for example.

We do sing a rousing version of Soldier's Joy, or as it's also called, "Rock the Cradle Juile". But I don't think that was us you saw on TV down in South Carolina, since we're not actually from South Carolina, We usually get asked that one of two ways, either "What part of South Carolina are you from?", or if they hear our accents, "Y'all ain't from South Carolina, are ya?" Always makes me wonder if anyone ever went up to the Ethiopian Serenaders and asked "Y'all ain't from Ethiopia, are ya?"

Often, we respond musically to the question by singing our version of the James Taylor song:

In our minds we're from South Carolina
None of us was born there, none of us has lived there,
But we did once play there so, everything is fine,
and we're from South Carolina in our minds

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md Line Field Music