Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

[modelf85]

I am considering purchasing a model F fife from www.beafifer.com because my cooperman rosewood rarely hits the High D. What I am asking is if any owners of the Model F fife (grenadilla) could please tell me what they are like and the sound of them? I have heard fifers from Vincents and the USV play them but I havent heard what they are like.

Also owners of the cooperman grenadilla model could you also please tell me what your fife is like?

Thank you

[verg]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

I have found the Model F one the easiest playing reproduction fifes. When I was sponsoring a F/D group within Jackson's Division several years ago, it was the only fife we used. They had excellent intonation and played well ensemble. All of the fifers commented they could more easily play a note, or two, higher than the ones we used before. We routinely played tunes requiring high A above the D you are trying to hit . . .

I am considering purchasing a model F fife from www.beafifer.com because my cooperman rosewood rarely hits the High D. What I am asking is if any owners of the Model F fife (grenadilla) could please tell me what they are like and the sound of them? I have heard fifers from Vincents and the USV play them but I havent heard what they are like.

Also owners of the cooperman grenadilla model could you also please tell me what your fife is like?

Thank you

[theotherguy]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

I am considering purchasing a model F fife from www.beafifer.com because my cooperman rosewood rarely hits the High D. What I am asking is if any owners of the Model F fife (grenadilla) could please tell me what they are like and the sound of them? I have heard fifers from Vincents and the USV play them but I havent heard what they are like.

Also owners of the cooperman grenadilla model could you also please tell me what your fife is like?

Thank you

I am completely satisfied with the model F Grenadilla that I bought. It is the easiest fife I have played next to an ebony that I have. The only concern I have is that lately I have read that its design is more like that of one made in the 1940-50s instead of a product of the mid 19th century. But to answer your question, it has a nice deep tone and it hits the high D every time.
Jay Hollenbeck

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hi There,

The only concern I have is that lately I have read that its design is more like that of one made in the 1940-50s instead of a product of the mid 19th century.

Considering the above, why would you want a model F? It seems to me that it would be a reenactor compromise instead of learning on a more exact reproduction, just like the boys of '61 had to.

http://www.peelerfifes.com/fifes/

I'd rather go witht the firth and pond reproduction fifes. IMO, I think getting a super-kewl super-modern great playing fife is like taking a modern steel string guitar or a fretted banjo to an event and reasoning that it's "BASICALLY the same as the originals."

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather hear a fifer play fairly on a good reproduction fife than hear one play wonderfully on something much more modern. Good luck fifing, Hampton! I am in earnest,

[modelf85]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Well,

what Im going to do is play the peeler on the field as soon as I save up money for it. The Model F is on my christmas and that fife is for panhandling and concerts and junk.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

The only concern I have is that lately I have read that its design is more like that of one made in the 1940-50s instead of a product of the mid 19th century.

Where did you read this?

Below are two fifes that date from the early to mid 19th century, from the Dayton C. Miller flute collection at the Library of Congress.


Cocus, nickel silver end ferrules, ca. 1848-1858, with markings "WILLIAM HALL & SON / 239 BROADWAY / N-YORK / C".


Boxwood, brass end ferrules, ca. 1803 -1818, with markings "B // (eagle) / WM. CALLENDER / 62 MIDDLE S[T] / BOSTON".

And here is my Model F:


As you can see, they look very, very similar.

While neither the Model F or the Peeler have an authentic marking, between the two, I would choose the Model F, for the stamping is often small and lightly made, and in a more authentic, serifed typeface, whereas the Peeler is a very modern, sans serifed typeface which is deeply laser engraved.



Now, time for the shameless plug. I love my Model F. I just got back from a muster at Fort Ticonderoga (Bully for the 1st NY!), and even after playing all day, the high Bs pop out like buttah and the low D gets a good honk.

[modelf85]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Jason,

Thank you very much for your post and I found the pictures very helpful and just one more question? Which would be better, the silver or brass ferrules?


P.S. You have a great website! I cant wait for your rev war section to open up.

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hi all,

I dunno, maybe it's just my picky personality showing through or something. Personally, I'm not concerned much here about the outside of the instrument being accurate, because ANY reproduction won't be 100 percent. But what about the inside? I confess, I am not a flute maker, nor do I know what exactly goes into making one, but because the model F can hit such great notes, I suspect that some ultra perfect boring procedure was utilized to make it so. Is it possible that the original instruments were not that perfect? We can only guess, because not everyone has played enough originals to compare...all we have are pictures. It's another one of those dastardly compromises! I'd be interested to hear others' information on the fife construction process, and how it relates to modern reproductions. I am in earnest,

[modelf85]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Jeffrey,

About the fife making process, go to www.beafifer.com . Ed Boyle has tons of information on fifes and fife making.

Hope I helped,

[JKfifer119]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hi all,

I dunno, maybe it's just my picky personality showing through or something. Personally, I'm not concerned much here about the outside of the instrument being accurate, because ANY reproduction won't be 100 percent. But what about the inside? I confess, I am not a flute maker, nor do I know what exactly goes into making one, but because the model F can hit such great notes, I suspect that some ultra perfect boring procedure was utilized to make it so. Is it possible that the original instruments were not that perfect? We can only guess, because not everyone has played enough originals to compare...all we have are pictures. It's another one of those dastardly compromises! I'd be interested to hear others' information on the fife construction process, and how it relates to modern reproductions. I am in earnest,

Right you are my good man....fifes were literally being cranked out.. anyone one with any kind of precision machinery (clock makers, wood workers as well as instrument makers) was knocking them out. an some folks were making them at home... but getting back to the difference betweena model f and a fife design from the mid and early 19th century... there are clear and obvious differences 1) the taper on the model F starts in the middle and narrows out to both ends , on the fifes of the ACW period the taper starts at the head near the mouth hole and tapers sharply to head and gradually to the foot end giving it a lopsided asymetrical look
2) tone hole spacing and size on model F as with most fifes designed after the late 19th century.. the holes are of varying sizes and often spaced in an a less than even fashion........in early fifes the holes are uniformly small and at even interevals

I have said this before ..why spend a small fortune on a kit that is painstakingly recreated from the original item and then settle for a fife
(albiet a good fife) that is copied from a design thats about 40 years old
The Model F is copied from the original Ferrary fife which was designed and manufactured starting in the late 1960's until the maker stopped some time in the late 70's early 80's
What Mr Peeler has done is taken an original, bonafide Firth and Pond and painstakingly reproduced it..
I have been playing for 24 years up here in the Northeast and I own alot of fifes.. Peeler is the only one thats copying an original from the period(that I have run across in a long time of fifing)
so unless your playing an original and I know some folks who do most other fifes are based on very modern post war designs including the model f

cheers
Joe Korber
119th NY (owner of 2 model F's but I don't use them in my impression :wink_smil )

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hampton,

Out of the 48 fifes in the Dayton C. Miller flute collection, 11 have brass ferrules and 11 have silver... so pick whatever strikes your fancy!

Jeffrey,

Fifes and concert flutes have been made the same way for hundreds of years - lathe turned for the body and drilled tone holes. There's really no other way to get about it, and the quality of instruments made then rival even those made now. The flutes made by Rudall & Rose of London and R.S. Pratten in the 1850s are still drooled over by tradition Irish flutists, and every maker of Irish flutes today copy their models. Matt Molloy, Seamus Egan, Tom Dorley all play copies (or, in the case of Molloy, original) Rudall & Roses and Prattens patterns. The craftsmanship is extraordinary.

I've played a few original fifes, and it is difficult to tell how they would have sounded new, though the ones I tried were in pretty rough shape. The bores were negelected over the years, and the inside was pretty dried out.

[theotherguy]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hi There,



Considering the above, why would you want a model F? It seems to me that it would be a reenactor compromise instead of learning on a more exact reproduction, just like the boys of '61 had to.

http://www.peelerfifes.com/fifes/

I'd rather go witht the firth and pond reproduction fifes. IMO, I think getting a super-kewl super-modern great playing fife is like taking a modern steel string guitar or a fretted banjo to an event and reasoning that it's "BASICALLY the same as the originals."

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather hear a fifer play fairly on a good reproduction fife than hear one play wonderfully on something much more modern. Good luck fifing, Hampton! I am in earnest,

Yeah I agree if I would have known the difference I would have probably gone with a Peeler.

[theotherguy]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Where did you read this?

Below are two fifes that date from the early to mid 19th century, from the Dayton C. Miller flute collection at the Library of Congress.


Cocus, nickel silver end ferrules, ca. 1848-1858, with markings "WILLIAM HALL & SON / 239 BROADWAY / N-YORK / C".


Boxwood, brass end ferrules, ca. 1803 -1818, with markings "B // (eagle) / WM. CALLENDER / 62 MIDDLE S[T] / BOSTON".

And here is my Model F:


As you can see, they look very, very similar.

While neither the Model F or the Peeler have an authentic marking, between the two, I would choose the Model F, for the stamping is often small and lightly made, and in a more authentic, serifed typeface, whereas the Peeler is a very modern, sans serifed typeface which is deeply laser engraved.



Now, time for the shameless plug. I love my Model F. I just got back from a muster at Fort Ticonderoga (Bully for the 1st NY!), and even after playing all day, the high Bs pop out like buttah and the low D gets a good honk.

I think it was the Peeler website.

[aplett]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

I have a model F and am perfectly content with it. My personal preference is for better playing quality, and I've never seen or heard a Peeler, so cannot comment on it.

I think all of us would like a fife that both plays well and is of an authentic period design. So why don't we start emailing Ed Boyle(maker of model Fs) to start making some more authentic instruments, and ask Peeler to make some better playing ones? Since we're their source of income, I'm sure they'd pay attention, especially if a bunch of us start contacting them.

A question for someone from Camp Chase: what fifes do you use?

Andrew Plett
Oregon Fife & Drum Corps
116th Penn. Vol. Inf. Co. B

[modelf85]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

I know one guy from camp chase and I think he said he uses some 200 dollar fife most likely a heely. I just checked in arms and equipment of the union in echoes of glory and the fife on page 238 resembles one of Ed boyles short ferruled fifes and its not like it doesnt "look" authentic because there were long ferruled fifes in the WBTS its just the inside like the boring and other things.