Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

[FederalDrummerBoy]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hello everyone,
Camp Chase uses a mixture of model Fs, peelers, and others. Infact I was playing a peeler today! Both of the two are great fifes.
__________
Alex Kuhn
CCFD

[Hurl]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

For the record: Ed Boyle does not make the Model F fife, he just markets them. I could tell you who DOES make them, but then ... well, you know.
Regards,
Steve Hurlbut

[2MDF&D]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

[QUOTE=modelf85]Jason,

Thank you very much for your post and I found the pictures very helpful and just one more question? Which would be better, the silver or brass ferrules?

I agree with Jason wholeheartedly.

We use Model F's/or originals. Brass ferules on the Model F's (customised). IMHO the Model F's are the best playing and sounding of the modern made fifes for the money. (by what all the fifers say in the group) For the most part, originals in good shape sound the best. Cloos, Cloos-Crosby, whatever it may be. They vary slightly in sound, too. Gives a nice mixture of tonalities. We have C fifes on hand as well to mix it up on occasion. Brutal. But, you'd think the C fifes would be more piercing or louder? They're not. We did a test at Cashtown one year and found out the Bb's are louder and carry further. Obviously due to lower frequency which are longer and carry further distances. They still be loud and piercing standing next to 'em (C's). I'll tell ya, my little original C fife will rip the top of your head off and jam your eyeballs into your sinuses! Don't play "Hog Eye Man" on it! Holy He%$! Whew!
Hope this helps. We are satisfied with the Model F's.

Regards,
Robbie McFarland
Snare
2MD Fifes and Drums

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Hello everyone,

I may be casting a bit more than just .02 on the subject here, but here goes. I think this is an interesting topic. In authentic reenacting we have the highest uniform and gear standards, but when it gets to music, we settle for modern compromises, it seems. I think we need to ask ourselves, what is more important, being a musician or being a reenactor? The two have different priorities, to wit; the serious musician would acquire the best playing instrument he could find, while the serious reenactor would acquire the most accurate instrument he could find. We agonize over the cut of the collar on a fatigue blouse, we count stitches in cartridge boxes, we plow through stacks of books and documents to research things like shoelace dimensions and oilcloth recipes, and yet we play on super modern fifes? It’s a fact that the model F’s are definitely not the most accurate reproductions. It’s also a fact that there are more accurate reproductions out there. Yet so many fifers opt for the one that plays the best, without regard to historical accuracy. Why? It seems like “Well, we’re not sure exactly what the originals played/sounded like, but we sure know what’s good now!”

I am humbly,

[theotherguy]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

[QUOTE=2MDF&D]I agree with Jason wholeheartedly.

We use Model F's/or originals. Brass ferules on the Model F's (customised). IMHO the Model F's are the best playing and sounding of the modern made fifes for the money. (by what all the fifers say in the group) For the most part, originals in good shape sound the best. Cloos, Cloos-Crosby, whatever it may be. They vary slightly in sound, too. Gives a nice mixture of tonalities. We have C fifes on hand as well to mix it up on occasion. Brutal. But, you'd think the C fifes would be more piercing or louder? They're not. We did a test at Cashtown one year and found out the Bb's are louder and carry further. Obviously due to lower frequency which are longer and carry further distances. They still be loud and piercing standing next to 'em (C's). I'll tell ya, my little original C fife will rip the top of your head off and jam your eyeballs into your sinuses! Don't play "Hog Eye Man" on it! Holy He%$! Whew!
Hope this helps. We are satisfied with the Model F's.

Regards,
Robbie McFarland
Snare
2MD Fifes and Drum


The original c I have plays exactly like you have stated also. WOW!!!!!
Jay Hollenbeck

[verg]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

For those interested in scholarly works on the topic, I would suggest the works of a musicologist, Dr. Lloyd Farrar (Norrisville,TN) One of particular interest might be: The American Fife and Its Makers. Woodwind Quarterly, vol 12. Farrar is a noted music historian and the University of Illinois has large collections named for him. Although he is mostly known for his works on brass instruments, he has spent decades studying 18th and 19th C military music. He has a phenominal collection of original fife and drum manuals. Farrar has studied and measured fifes for years as well as running down the makers and their companies. Do a Google search, you'll find publications, collections and lectures announcements.

For what it is worth, he is/was a believer that all this research is useless unless people hear the music live - in proper kit . . . on drums with skin heads, linen rope and proper strainers with heavy telephone pole like sticks . . . one of the first morning sounds in camp would be the quiet tapping of the drummers as they slowly and carefully dried their night-air soaked drum heads by the fire prior to playing drums call . . .

[markj]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Piggybacking on the above comments, you can find a complete, itemized listing of Woodwind Quarterly issues at this site. All back issues are available for a reasonable price and Issues 10 & 11 also contain fife-related articles:

http://www.musictrader.com/wwqindex.html#12

Here is a University of Illinois-Champaign listing for the LLoyd Farrar Collection. However, I'm not sure it includes fifes:

http://web.library.uiuc.edu/ahx/uaccard/UAControlCard.asp?RG=12&SG=9&RS=92

However the Carl Busch Collection, also at UI-Champaign (90 minutes west of where I live in Indiana) does contain fifes:

http://web.library.uiuc.edu/ahx/uaccard/UAControlCard.asp?RG=12&SG=9&RS=91&highlight=Musical%20Instrument%20Collections

Looks like it's time for a "road trip....."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[verg]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Someone might want to call or write Dr Farrar. I would bet he would talk your ear off

[verg]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Found more on the collection holdings . . .

(http://www.library.uiuc.edu/sousa/additional.htm#FARRAR)

The Patuxent Martial Musick Collection

In September of 1995 Lloyd and Doris Farrar and Jean Farrar Munn donated funds to establish a fellowship in honor of their fathers who had served as faculty members of the University of Illinois College of Agriculture and the College of Law. . . . The assistant will have the opportunity to arrange, describe, and study instruments in the Patuxent Martial Musick Collection for two years and to produce a monograph about a portion of the collection. Dr. Farrar also donated his collection of more than 800 musical instruments and files regarding the provenance of the instruments to the Sousa Archives. In February, 1996 Dr. Farrar presented 18 cubic feet of instrumental solo and ensemble music and orchestral scores to the University of Illinois Music Library. The Patuxent Martial Musick Collection will reside at the University of Illinois by the year 2000.

[fiferjackdoyle]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

FYI - The "silver" fife ferrules most commonly seen on 19th Century fifes are German Silver which is actually nickel.

Peeler - his Firth & Pond reproduction has ferrules of German Silver.
Model F - Model F ferrules come in brass or chrome, not silver.

Both play well. I love my two Model F's and my two Peelers (one with authentic finger-holes and one with modern finger-holes).

Thehos mentioned his Model F looked like the pictures of the 19th Century fifes. True at first glance. Looking closer at mid-19th Century fifes, and I've been collecting and studying them for over 30 years, you'll see the finger holes are all the same size. The Model F has varying sized finger holes, a modification made after the ACW to get a truer pitch. W.Crosby Boston fifes, Firth, Pond & Co., William Hall & Son fifes from the Civil War era all have the same sized holes. They also have a noticable taper, widest at the embouchure and narrowing toward both ends. Finally, ACW era fifes tend to have a distinctive ferrule style with two incribed lines on either end and a center inscribed line with two dimples on the center line pressed into the ferrule to hold it in place if the wood shrinks. Peeler's Firth & Pond repro with the old finger-hole style has all these features.

All this talk about fifes makes me wonder about drums.

Things such as plastic heads, muffler straps, synthetic rope, laminated ply shells weren't used during the ACW. Solid shells and unmuffled calfskin were. New thread needed for that discussion

Jack Doyle

[joewhitney]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

Haven't been to this forum in a while (months? years?) but thought I'd throw some more fuel on the fire. To "authentic campaigners", a fife's outward appearance is much more important than to modern F&D corps players or mainstream reenactors. At this time, there is only one repro fife that bears a strong resemblance to most original Civil War fifes, and that is Ron Peeler's "Firth Pond & Co." reproduction (by the way, none of the originals was marked Firth AND Pond). The Model F, while generally being an excellent player, unfortunately swells at the center rather than at the blowhole, significantly altering its appearance in comparison to 19th century fifes.

To concur and expound on earlier comments, Peeler's "Model FP", is made to the exact same measurements as an original FP&C fife. It has authentic same-sized finger holes. It has authentic end ferrules as well, the top one about 1/4 inch shorter than the bottom, and 5 rings (not hash marks) on them scored in the 2-1-2 pattern most common in original CW fifes.

However, the rings are cut a little too deep, wide and perfect compared to originals. This could be remedied by ordering them unscored, and carefully scoring them with a cheap pipe cutter from the hardware store (but don't cut too deep, and don't dent the wood!) Remember to then use a very small hole punch or nail set to replicate the tiny dimples that were lightly punched on the ferrules to help keep them from falling off. Tap one tiny dimple on either side of each ferrule, through the center ring. Some makers of 19th century fifes put three dimples per ferrule, but that was rare.

I did the above modifications to the 2nd MD's Model F's (which came from Leo Brennan, but like Ed Boyle's Model F's were made by someone else). I also drilled out the finger holes to the same width, with no noticeable effect on the tone other than to make them louder. This can be done (carefully!) with any repro fife with varying width finger holes, but remember, bigger holes mean more air passing through, so you have to take a breath much more often. Also, altering only one or some of the fifes in a corps might throw off the overall group sound. Also also, most period fifes actually had small holes compared to repro fifes (except Peeler's).

Another issue is that they are marked PEELER rather than FIRTH POND & CO. / 547 BROADWAY / N-YORK like the originals. Since it's etched pretty deep, there's not much you can do about that. When I suggested to Ron he copy Firth-Ponds (he was originally planning on copying Cloos-Crosby fifes), I recommended he also copy the maker's mark. Not being a reenactor, he wasn't aware how much we value replicating maker's marks, and I think he was afraid they might later be confused with originals (by clueless ebayers maybe, but not by reenactors!). I also think he signs them partly out of pride of workmanship. You could ask him to make yours without a maker's mark, but I don't know how he would react to that. I do have several unmarked original FP copies in my collection, so an unmarked FP copy would be very authentic.

Some early Peeler Model FP's had problems with roughness in the bore, but most repro fifes, including Model F's, have had the same problem to varying degrees. Sometimes it looks like the maker just didn't drill and/or sand the wood smooth inside. Other times it looks like the finish may have picked up dust and stuff while drying. To remedy, pop the cork out and look through the bore at a light bulb. If it's not super smooth, run a small ball of #0000 super fine steel wool back and forth through it with dowel rods (round down the dowel ends first, or you will gouge the bore!) Then seal the bore by running through it a small ball of cloth soaked in a little bit of a good finish (I use Minwax Antique Oil Finish, which is 2/3 linseed oil with drying agents). Repeat as necessary, drying between coats, to get a smooth bore (much smoother than bare wood) that will let the air flow cleanly through, giving you the clearest tone and loudest volume (you should even be able to hit that high D).

Since the bores on all my fifes are protected with a finish, I've never put any type of oil in them, nor seen a need to. Liquid oil being blown around inside a fife just doesn't strike me as conducive to clean, uniform air flow.

I agree that the ratio of brass ferrules to German silver were about 50/50 based on surviving samples. As for key, also about 50/50. In fact, some Union regiments were issued both Bb and C fifes at the same time. "German Silver" (also called White Nickel Brass), is a copper-nickel-zinc alloy, but you won't see it described as German Silver on American goods anymore because the FTC prohibited the use of the term for any metal not specifically containing silver.

Joe,

Forum rules require you to sign your FULL name to your posts. You promised to read/acknowledge/abide our rules when you applied to our forum.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1034

Please consider this your First Warning

Scott McKay, moderator
Authentic Campaigner Forums

[markj]

Re: Model F and Cooperman Grenadilla Fife

For those who have not seen the Dayton C. Miller Fife Collection yet, here is an online exhibit of various fifes held by the Library of Congress:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dcmhtml/dmhome.html

(Just type in the key word "fife")

Incidentally, I also have xeroxed copies of the Farrar articles about historical fifes and their makers.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger