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  • drum construction

    FederalDrummerBoy wrote:

    "As to the argument over NO MUFFLERS, congradulations, but was the drum on which you play constructed correctly ? More than likely, it is not accurately made. You made the argument over having 100% authentic gear but using modern music. Why don't you make sure that you hold your drum or gun to the same standard. Does your drum have the same weight as the originals, was it constructed the same way and with the same materials? You have correct rosewood sticks, but have you ever considered investing in a pair cocobolo sticks, which were about prevelent as rosewood? Is your drum steambent one ply made of birch, ash, maple, etc. and glued or nailed with two or three stranded linen or hemp ropes? Many authentic living historians, reenactors, or whatever you want to call yourself don't take the time to make sure that their intruments and weapons are of the same quality as their other uniform parts. "

    Here is some information from source documents:

    BOSTON DRUM MANUFACTORY, NO 81 CORNHILL, BOSTON.

    SNARE DRUMS, made from the best of well seasoned Rock Maple, extra fine and clear Calf Skins, for both beating and snare heads, with best quality of Cords, Snares, Ears and Snare-fastners, and are in every respect first quality. strong and substantial. Also the same painted and ornamented with Coat of Arms of the United States, and with the arms of any State marked in gilt letters, “United States Volunteers,” or “Massachusetts Volunteers,” &c., with fine silver plated trimmings, fine linen cord. The usual size is 16 inches across the heads, and 12 inches high, (the regulation size). Also, 12, 13, 14, 15, 15½, 16½, 17, 17½, 18, 20. Also, BASS DRUMS, of 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 40 inches. Every Drum is warranted to give satisfaction in every respect.

    Also, constantly on hand and for sale; single, by the doz. or in hundreds, a large assortment of DRUM HEADS, Extra fine and clear, and common Calf-skins, Goat-skins, and Sheep-skins, SNARES of different sizes and qualities. Plain and polished Brass, and line Silver plated Scare Fasteners, of the best make in the United States. Cords of Hemp and Flax, and made of fine Linen Shoe thread. EARS, Sticks of Ebony, Rose-wood, Cocoa-wood, Leopard-wood, &c. &c. Bass Drum Sticks, (wound and covered with Buck-skin), Drum-Slings or belts, with or without Carriages (for holding sticks); Bass Drum Slings, Air hole cushings, &c. Drums repaired at short notice. INDIA RUBBER DRUM COVERS, (to remain on when beat in rainy weather). Fifes, Fife Mouthpieces with Screws, ....Address Boston Drum Manufactory, Elias Howe, Agent."

    HOWE'S UNITED STATES REGULATION DRUM AND FIFE INSTRUCTOR:

    " Different kinds of woods are used; mostly of Maple, Ash, Oak, Beach, Spruce, and Black-walnut is well seasoned Rock-maple is decidedly the best, The heads used are usually calf, goat or sheepskins.
    The Regulation Drums of the United States are made of Ash, sixteen inches across the heads, the shells are twelve or, thirteen inches high, the beating head of calfskin, the snare head of sheepskin; nine or ten holes in each hoop, hemp cord and snares, but without snare fastners. The sticks are sixteen or seventeen inches long, of cocoa or rosewood; the slings or belts are of white webbing, two or two and one half inches wide, with brass carriages as sheaths for the sticks."

    Does anyone know of a maker who currently makes a quality, authentic reproduction drum?

    Will Chappell
    Will Chappell

  • #2
    Re: drum construction

    Cooperman. Call them, tell them you want milk paint, no modern varnishes, solid shell ash, hemp rope, skin heads, and send them a picture of an original drum, with dimensions, and they'll do it. Even if you want rounded or flat edges to your hoops, they'll do it. Just expect to pay, but, as we've all learned doing this reenacting thing, you get what you pay for.
    Jason R. Wickersty
    http://www.newblazingstarpress.com

    Received. “How now about the fifth and sixth guns?”
    Sent. “The sixth gun is the bully boy.”
    Received. “Can you give it any directions to make it more bully?”
    Sent. “Last shot was little to the right.”
    Received. “Fearfully hot here. Several men sunstruck. Bullets whiz like fun. Have ceased firing for awhile, the guns are so hot."

    - O.R.s, Series 1, Volume 26, Part 1, pg 86.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: drum construction

      "Cooperman. Call them, tell them you want milk paint, no modern varnishes, solid shell ash, hemp rope, skin heads, and send them a picture of an original drum, with dimensions, and they'll do it. Even if you want rounded or flat edges to your hoops, they'll do it. Just expect to pay, but, as we've all learned doing this reenacting thing, you get what you pay for."

      I'm imagine that Cooperman would do what you say, but has anyone actually had an authentic drum made by them? I would hate to see someone spend a bunch of money only to wind up being disatisfied with the result. I already own a Cooperman, so I'd probably try to defarb mine before getting another. Any ideas on period wood finishes? I suppose a shellac or wax finish would be appropriate for the shell. Can anyone comment on Old Glory or Carroll drums? The construction of Carroll drums seems to be more like that used in the 19th century, but I've heard about Carroll's drums' hoops warping and other issues. Looking at the Old Glory website, it seems that a authentic drum from this maker would have to be a custom job as well. The paint and finish appears to be the modern type, but it is sometimes hard to tell by a photo.


      Will Chappell
      Will Chappell

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: drum construction

        Yes, I had a drum made by them with solid ash shell, milk paint, no modern varnish, straight hoop edges. I at first skimped on the hemp rope and skin heads because I wanted the drum first, and those are items you can pick up anytime from them and switch out yourself. I ended up selling the drum about two years ago, but I plan on picking up a new one in the near future, and I'm going back to Cooperman without a moments hesitation.
        Jason R. Wickersty
        http://www.newblazingstarpress.com

        Received. “How now about the fifth and sixth guns?”
        Sent. “The sixth gun is the bully boy.”
        Received. “Can you give it any directions to make it more bully?”
        Sent. “Last shot was little to the right.”
        Received. “Fearfully hot here. Several men sunstruck. Bullets whiz like fun. Have ceased firing for awhile, the guns are so hot."

        - O.R.s, Series 1, Volume 26, Part 1, pg 86.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: drum construction

          "I at first skimped on the hemp rope and skin heads because I wanted the drum first, and those are items you can pick up anytime from them and switch out yourself"

          You can get calfskin heads from:

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          $15 is a much better price than $60+ from Cooperman.

          Tucking skins yourself takes a bit of practice though.

          Make sure you get the thin ones. They are suitable for batter but not for snare side.

          Hemp rope can be found here:



          I don't see why Cooperman would charge much more for authentic paint and finish. Supply and demand I guess.

          Thanks for the info on what Cooperman can do. Wish I could see the drum.


          Will Chappell
          Will Chappell

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: drum construction

            I have a cooperman, its made from Mahogany. Its very nice, and i suggest that anyone interested in buying a drum get it from cooperman!
            [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="3"]John R. Legg[/SIZE][/FONT]

            [email]Johnlegg90@gmail.com[/email]

            "Alright, Legg, what did you screw up now?" - C. Henderson
            Ft.Blakeley LH - May 25-27
            Maryland, My Maryland. - September 7-9
            6th Wisconsin Antietam LH - September 15-17
            150th Perryville - October 5-7
            Valley Forge - January 18-20, 2013

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: drum construction

              I am not entirely sure that Cooperman will make anyone an authentic reproduction drum. For instance:

              Cooperman uses a shell that is way too thick and not steam-bent with a scarf joint. Trying to "defarb" a Cooperman would be next to impossible because you would need a whole new shell. Their hoops are also too thick and their paints are very glossy. Finding correct hemp and linen rope is also very hard indeed. Most rope you will find is too thick and put together wrong.

              Robert from Old Glory is impossible to communicate with, but George Carroll will talk to you about anything and answer any questions you have. There are only two drum makers that I would recommend to anyone, that is George Carroll and Jim Smith. I own drums from both of these men and they are made in the proper fashion. (I can discuss this further at another time if you like)

              If Cooperman would agree to make an authentic drum for you, it would take a lot of time and a lot of money. I have talked many times with Jim Ellis of Cooperman drums and he is a great guy. They make a wonderful modern rope-tenstion drum that will stand the test of time, but it is not close to authentic .

              I would be more than happy to talk to you in depth about authentic drums anytime. I find it reassuring that someone out their is thinking hard about purchasing a drum that is as authentic as possible.

              Sincerely,

              Patrick Jones
              Camp Chase Fife and Drums

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: drum construction

                "Cooperman uses a shell that is way too thick and not steam-bent with a scarf joint. Trying to "defarb" a Cooperman would be next to impossible because you would need a whole new shell."

                I have a solid shell cooperman, not the laminated model. It is indeed one-ply, but, like you say, the shell is pretty thick. I think the taper for the the scarf joint is very precisely cut using some sophisticated modern equipment, but you can still see the overlap.

                I met Jim Smith at a jam in Baltimore recently. He said that he owns over 40 original bass drums alone. One of his friends was playing an original unmuffled bass with skin heads. It had a great warm sound. Jim was playing an original unmuffled Zimmerman side drum with no snare strainer. He didn't have much tension on it. I guess that way it wouldn't be so loud and bother the ancients. I just used the old trick of putting my wallet on top of my drum to stop the ringing. I had no idea Jim actually built drums, I though that he just collected and restored them. Given his knowledge, I bet he could make a fine drum. Patrick, do you have Jim' Smith's contact info? Also, is your Carroll drum like the ones on his website, www.ropedrum.com, or was it a special order?

                Will Chappell
                Will Chappell

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: drum construction

                  Will,

                  The drum I have from Jim Smith is an exact replica of a Horstmann Brothers drum that he owned. The drum is exact in every way to the original down to the paint color. I know Jim makes many different styles of drums with various eagle designs. All of which are traced off original eagle drums. I will give you some more info through a PM. I don't really want to post his contact information for everyone to see.

                  My Carroll drum was a special order. I talked with George and discussed exactly what I wanted in regards to shell color, heads, dimensions, ears, and rope. Although George's drums are constructed in the correct manner, he does not use solid 1/8 inch shells. He uses a plyable Birch. I have discussed with him if plywood shells were used and he says he has orignals that are ply. I have never seen one myself, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.

                  In regards to Cooperman drums, they are very precise and put together with modern techniques. I know that both Jim Smith and George Carroll use period techniques when constructing their drums. I really think that Cooperman drums are a work of art, but it is modern. I have learned, in my short 24 years of life, that there is nothing like playing on a drum that was constucted by hand, with the utmost attention to detail. Drum making is part science, but it is also part art.

                  I look foward to continueing this discussion further, and maybe others who read this conversation will take a closer look at what they are playing on and ask themselves, "Should I be satisfied with this?" I have to admit, I do get a little annoyed at people who think Cooperman makes the best repro. drum on the market. As you can see, that is far from true.

                  Sincerely,

                  Patrick Jones
                  Camp Chase Fife and Drums

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: drum construction

                    If you are looking for a more authentic drum I say go with a Carroll. He is the most knowledgable person on the subject I have ever met.
                    [I]Sam Horton[/I]
                    Musician
                    OFJ Staff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: drum construction

                      I have to agree that Cooperman's drums are generally overbuilt and way too heavy compared to original Civil War drums. Not something you'd ant to carry on a 25 mile hump. The shells and hoops are too thick. The hoops are too tall. The leather ears are larger and thicker than originals, which were pretty flimsy by today's standards. And of course their cost is among the highest available today.

                      On the other hand, when I see a drum fail in the field because its hoops warp or break, or its shell collapses under the normal pressure of tightening the rope, it's invariably a Carroll drum, although they are very light. Of course, I don't know how old those drums might have been. They may be early Carroll drums whose issues George may have corrected over time. He initially told me his goal was to make very inexpensive drums for beginners, so if they soon lost interest in playing they or their parents would not be out a lot of money. Naturally, it's hard to achieve both quality and inexpensiveness in a musical instrument.

                      I don't know if I can recommend milk paint for drums, especially the hoops, since milk finishes are flat and many originals I've seen have glossy or semi-glossy paint finishes on their hoops. I also don't think a relatively expensive and perishable ingredient like milk would likely have been used in a mass production facility like Elias Howe's Drum Manufactory, and these types of facilities produced most of the drums of the period.

                      The primary difference between historic paint and modern paint is the banning of lead in 1978. This soft metal increased the lifespan of a painted finish by decades, which is why houses and highways have to be repainted so frequently now:

                      "But this kind of operation does not lend itself to the use of milk paint. Made from natural milk protein, it will spoil just like whole milk. Therefore, from the very beginning of the commercial oil paint industry, up until 1935, the only paint sold commercially was oil-based paint, to which was added lead, mildewcides, and other poisonous additives."

                      Didn't know Jim Smith made drums too. He certainly has one of the largest collections of originals he could use for reference.

                      Joe Whitney
                      2nd SC String Band
                      MD Line Field Music

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: drum construction

                        Does anyone know how period a Red Dragon Music drum is? The company has been out of buisness for some time.

                        Travis Franklin
                        Travis Franklin
                        "Patrick Fhailen"

                        The Missoura Shirkers
                        4th Mo. Inf.

                        "The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states." Charles Dickens, 1862

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: drum construction

                          Travis,

                          Do you have any pictures you can post? That may help out, a lot can be told from just looking at a drum.

                          Patrick Jones
                          Camp Chase Fife and Drums

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: drum construction

                            I didn't know that Red Dragon made drums. I just remember he would put a 4 or 5 inch wide felt muffler on a drum when he overhauled it-- nothing authentic about that. I did get a copy of Howe's from him over 10 years ago though. Back then you saw a lot of Eames drums, which I though were the ones that Red Dragon sold.


                            Will Chappell
                            Will Chappell

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: drum construction

                              Red Dragon made drums,I have one...The muffler is about mabye 2 inches wide made of linnen or cotton.I will post picture as soon as I can.

                              Travis Franklin
                              Travis Franklin
                              "Patrick Fhailen"

                              The Missoura Shirkers
                              4th Mo. Inf.

                              "The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states." Charles Dickens, 1862

                              Comment

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