"Whiskey in the Jug"

[El Dorado]

I am looking for the song "Whiskey in the Jug". In the 1853 it was sung by 7 year old Susan Robinson - aka - La Petite Susan the California Fairy Star. In 1856 it was sung in London at the Adelphi Theater by Barney Williams.

So far, I am not sure if "Whiskey in the Jug" is the title of the song or just part of the lyrics. I have found other songs of the period (such as "Shawneetown") that include those words. Thanks for any help that you can give me!

Kind regards,
Chris Ownby

[dbuckley]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Is it possible you're thinking of "Whiskey in the Jar"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_in_the_Jar

[El Dorado]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

"Is it possible you're thinking of "Whiskey in the Jar"?"

No, it is definatley "Whiskey in the Jug".

Chris Ownby

[Old Cremona]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Naw, not "Whiskey in the Jar," it's "Whiskey in the Jug;" you are of course correct, Chris.

The melody is different in the verse of the older "Jug," the chorus is nearly the same. Everyone is much more familiar with the Irish folk song "Whiskey in The Jar."

It's in the Levy Collection, Chris, also check Music For The Nation and Duke University's Historic American Sheet Music.

[Old Cremona]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Okay, I looked around a bit, and I can't PROVE that Whiskey in the Jug is older than Whiskey in the Jar.

If someone has documentation that "Whiskey In The Jar" was at least fairly commonly sung around campfires and in the parlors of America in the mid-19th century, then you've got a winner. Go for it.

All too often, IMHO, reenactors take folk songs that we are assume are old and play them at events. I would submit that "authentics" should have higher standards. Such as my buddy Chris Ownby:D

We have proof (sheet music) that "Whiskey in The Jug" was around in the 1850's. We also know that Banjo players regularly played and practiced "Irish delineation," from period banjo tutors. So even without a specific banjo arrangement of it we can get a "very good idea" of how to play it by studying arrangements of other "Irish" tunes.

No offense to anyone, just some thoughts on music done "Authentically."

[El Dorado]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Thanks Carl,

The Levy Collection looks like that might be it. I still wish that I could find a version that was published a few years earlier.

Here is a bit more information from The Theater of the Golden Era in California by George R. MacMinn about Susan Robinson to prove that "the show must go on".....................

"Something happen in one of the mining towns on a Sunday evening of June, 1854, that came near putting an early end to the career of the Fairy Star. Upon finishing her first dance she passed too close to the side lamp of the tiny stage. Here is the Grass Valley Telegraph's account of the incident:

"In an instance the light dress caught, and the unfortunate girl was enveloped in flames. Her shrieks called her parents from behind the scene, and the fire was soon extinguished, but not untill she was severely injured. The hands of both Mr. and Mrs. Robinson were severely burned. The wounds of the little girl are broad, but not deep, and it is thought by her physician that she will be able to labors in the course of two or three weeks."

"When she had fully recovered from the shock and hurt of the accident, the young artist quickly developed her versatility as dancer, singer, and actress."

Thanks again,

Chris Ownby

[Danny]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

"...We also know that Banjo players regularly played and practiced "Irish delineation," from period banjo tutors... "

Carl -

I understand your passion for the tutors - you're one of the better players out there who use them as a primary source - but how could we possibly know that "banjo players regularly played and practiced "Irish delineation," from period banjo tutors..." ?

The period we are interested in here is CW soldier banjo players. Weren't most of them from rural areas, and weren't most amateurs? What we do know is that the banjo tutors became widely available after the war. Before the war there were only a couple to be had, and if those farm and small-town boys even knew those existed, they would have had to mail for them. That's quite different than "banjo players regularly... "

For our purpose here you go for what's most likely, not for the exception. What's most likely is that most soldier banjo players picked up the music by ear (from stage performances, parlor piano, circus, street, or plantation) or some, musically trained, interpolated from the piano sheet music that was widely available.

On the main topic at hand, apparently there was a stateside version song sheet of "Whiskey In The Jug" published in 1858 by Oliver Ditson, which may have sourced from an earlier overseas version.

-Dan Wykes

[Old Cremona]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Ah, thank you "Dan'l", for your daily dose of hot gas. Where would banjo scholarship be today without your blow-hard, opinion-heavy rants? We shall truly miss you on the Briggs board.

Your post contains so many fatuous absurdities it's almost hard to know where to start. Let's give it a try-

"one of the better players who use them as a primary source (tutors)"

As opposed to what? ALL serious modern minstrel banjo players use tutors as their primary resource. Please name me one serious 1840's-50's-60's style banjo player who doesn't form his/her style around period tutors.

"how could we possibly know banjo players played Irish (music)"

Once again, "Dan'l", we look for documentation. First of all in the tutors, our main source of actual banjo music, which contain many Irish-style songs, but then in songsters of the period. I have 4 of them I'm studying right now. Unsworth's Burnt Cork Lyrics, 1859; Christy's New Songster and Black Joker, 1863; Dixie's Essence of Burnt Cork, 1859; and Charley Fox's Sable Songster, 1859. Each one of these songsters has several Irish style songs intended for the banjo. It says so right on the song. One example- Unsworth, page 34, "The Groves of Blarney- Banjo song."

"The period we are interested in here is CW soldier banjo players"

Says who? Besides you, of course. Read the discription at the top of this page. And who says you have to have a soldier impression? Besides you, of course.

"weren't most of them from rural areas?"

More opinion from the master. Who says banjo players didn't come from the cities?

"most banjo players...interpolated from the piano sheet music"

Unfortunately, none of those players you refer to left you any record of their playing. Thus the supremacy of the tutors as instructional material. It's called "primary resources."

I think your stuff was best summed up by the famous banjo scholar Peter Szego on the Briggs site when he called it..."bad history."

[Danny]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Carl -

I will point out for the others here that on the Briggs site you are the dominating poster with 331 posts as of today, double that of any other member. Despite that the discussion there has opened up considerably beyond tutor-worship, and now pursues a reasonable analysis of pre-1865 banjo playing, the emphasis on Early Banjo performance in it's entirety, instruments and sources. I take credit for some of that, but agree with Mr. Partner it's best to step away after your threatening to leave the forum last month.

As for this topic, to keep on topic, there is plenty of material available as to who made up the bulk of Northern and Southern forces in the Civil War, and what comprised popular music of the pre-1865 era, the stated focus of this group.

If you want to also dominate the topic here, please at least keep it civil.

-Dan Wykes

p.s. of course I never said "how could we possibly know banjo players played Irish (music)" That would have been absurd. I feel that actually replacing words in a quote is dishonest.

[Old Cremona]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Best to step away? That is some impressive spin. You were BANNED.

The funny thing about our little feud is that it is so unnecessary. There is no problem with "tutor worship." If there was wouldn't someone else notice and join you in your crusade? All the great minstrel banjo players on the list, and not one of them complains of "tutor worship." This feud started way back when when you burst onto the Briggs board, exhorting us to "hang period technique." You modified your position along the line, but the lines were drawn and you never back down.

The tutors are always going to be a huge part of minstrel banjo playing. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have minstrel banjo as we know it today. The revival started in the mid1970's when a young Bob Winans asked the question, "What exactly did the banjo sound like during the Civil War?" And to answer that question, he got an original banjo and a copy of Briggs Banjo Instructor and took it from there. Before him, the sound was completely forgotten.

If you doubt the accuracy of that account, I specifically asked him about that and got that reply at the Early Banjo Gathering.

I don't post anything here I can't back with documentation. You should do the same. And if I make a post discussing music from the tutors that irritates you, why not just let it go and start another thread about "raw reckoning?" Then we can respect each others space and get along fine.

[Danny]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

The tutors are the best record we have of the style - but before 1865 most players didn't know that.

- Dan Wykes

[JimKindred]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Kids,

Play nice or there will be some suspensions. We have already received one complaint about this thread.

[nick19thind]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

As I was going over the Cork and Kerry mountains
I saw Captain Farrell and his money he was counting
I first produced my pistol and then produced my rapier
I said "stand and deliver or the devil he may take you"

I took all of his money and it was a pretty penny
I took all of his money, yeah, and I brought it home to Molly
She swore that she loved me, no, never would she leave me
But the devil take that woman, yeah, for you know she tricked me
easy

Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da
Whack for my daddy-o
Whack for my daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar-o

Being drunk and weary I went to Molly's chamber
Taking Molly with me, but I never knew the danger
For about six or maybe seven, yeah, in walked Captain Farrell
I jumped up, fired my pistols, and I shot him with both barrels,
yeah

Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da, yeah-yeah
Whack for my daddy-o
Whack for my daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar-o

Now some men like the fishing and some men like the fowling
And some men like to hear, to hear the cannonball a-roaring
Me I like sleeping, especially in my Molly's chamber
But here I am in prison, here I am with a ball and chain, yeah

Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da, yeah-yeah
Whack for my daddy-o
Whack for my daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar-o, yeah

Whiskey in the jar-o, yeah

Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da
Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da, hey
Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da
Musha rain dum-a-do-dum-a-da, yeah

[Horton]

Re: "Whiskey in the Jug"

Those are the lyrics to "Whiskey in the Jar. "Whiskey in the Jug" is a different song.

Sam, excellent observation. This thread has been in a state of marked decline for while. Let us close this one, bury the dead, and if there is interest in further discussion about Whiskey in the Jug, please start a new thread.

Charles Heath
One of those annoying mods.