fifers' set list

[33rdaladrummer]

A fifer from another forum passed along the following information about a G.A.R. postcard that was sent to members of the National Association of Civil War Musicians who planned on attending the G.A.R. encampment in Rochester in 1911. Someone in charge wanted to cancel the music so the old-timers wouldn't have to march. Here is what one of the musicians had to say about it:

"Say boys it's up to you'uns to settle this dispute
'Bout marchin' at Encampments an' all that "GUSH" refute.
Who's gettin' old and feeble an' totter as they walk:
Say wouldn't that jar yer pension, an' cause a vet to balk?
Just as lief attend camp meetin' without the prayer and shout
As to mix in a Reunion with the marchin' all left out.
So we'll just keep on a marchin' an' a passin' in Review
Cause we've earned the right to do so ALL IN OUR UNION BLUE."

On another post card that was sent out is a set list

The Recruiting Seargent--8
The Raw Recruit--33
The Roving Sailor-- --
Jefferson and Liberty--11
Girl I Left Behind Me--33
The Campbells Are Coming--30
The Squirrel Hunters Q.S.--62
O' Lassie Art Thou Sleeping Yet--31
White Cockade--7
Haste to the Wedding--25

It looks like a good list of tunes for a fifer to learn for a living history or reenactment. The page numbers are for the American Veteran Fifer.

Will Chappell
33rd Alabama
Liberty Hall Fifes and Drums

[Jim Moffet]

Re: fifers' set list

Thanks for sharing that, Will. - great list! Most of the songs are pretty simple, and many are in Bruce & Emmett, as well as AVF - a book that has to be taken w/ the usual "post-war publication" scepticism. Many CW vets continued their musical & para-military interests in fife & drum corps after the war, and some of the tunes they collected certrainly could have been modified/new post-war.

Jim Moffet
First Minnesota, Co. A

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

Thanks for sharing that, Will. - great list! Most of the songs are pretty simple, and many are in Bruce & Emmett, as well as AVF - a book that has to be taken w/ the usual "post-war publication" scepticism. Many CW vets continued their musical & para-military interests in fife & drum corps after the war, and some of the tunes they collected certrainly could have been modified/new post-war.

Jim Moffet
First Minnesota, Co. A

Jim,

Only two of the tunes from that list are in Bruce and Emmett's: The Girl I Left Behind Me(a fancy version) and The Campbells Are Coming(as an exercise). B&E may be widely available on sutler row today, but many people have a strong argument that B&E was a rarity during the war. There have been many threads on this forum that discuss how B&E does (or does not) represent the music played by a typical CW drum corps. I am personally more skeptical about B&E accurately representing CW field music than I am about the AVF, a collection of music that is primarily based on the experiences of musicians who actually served in the war.

I have looked into the issue of some AVF tunes being postwar and have only found one, Post No. 2 G. A. R. Reel, which was first published in 1881 and composed by Wm. McCarthy. On the other hand, another tune in the AVF, Burkholder Post No. 115 G.A.R., is the first half of the old tune, York Fusiliers, which shows up in several fife and drum manuals of the early 1800's. I have been able to locate earlier sources for many of the AVF tunes. For some tunes this is pretty easy, for others we may never know. Many of those tunes I suspect were older tunes that had never been written down before the AVF. For the most part, fifers learned tunes by ear in those days and not by note. For the tunes listed on the G. A. R. postcard, all were published prior to the war except one, Squirrel Hunters. If you look in the index of the AVF, it gives a date of 1862.

Will Chappell

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

I should have also said that those page numbers were the ones found on the original postcard. This makes sense because the Nat'l Assoc. of C.W. Musicians was the organization that published the AVF.

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

Jim,

Only two of the tunes from that list are in Bruce and Emmett's: The Girl I Left Behind Me(a fancy version) and The Campbells Are Coming(as an exercise). B&E may be widely available on sutler row today, but many people have a strong argument that B&E was a rarity during the war. There have been many threads on this forum that discuss how B&E does (or does not) represent the music played by a typical CW drum corps. I am personally more skeptical about B&E accurately representing CW field music than I am about the AVF, a collection of music that is primarily based on the experiences of musicians who actually served in the war.

Shown below is the earliest ad I've ever encountered for Bruce & Emmett. It definitely establishes that the title was offered commercially during the war, but, of course, it does not indicate how widely it was offered or if the manual percolated down to regimental field musicians in any great numbers.

I've repeatedly seen claims that B&E was officially adopted by the U.S. Army in 1862, but the sourcing for this seems pretty thin at best. Even if the Army did formally adopt B&E, one would think use of it was likely known only among Regular Army field musicians and not among volunteer regiments (except through such informal channels as word-of-mouth). Perhaps some knowledgeable soul can straighten me out on this point.


Harper's Illustrated Weekly. Volume: 1864 Issue: 02/13 (also appears in the 02/20/64 issue) Page Range: 0111b-0111b

Drums and Fifes for the Army.

Elegant Prize Drums in Wood, Brass, and German

Silver, from $50 down to $12 50 each. Cheap Drums,

$5 to $10 each. Pure Silver Fifes, from $75 to $40 each.

Elegant German Silver Fifes, from $6 to $10 each. Em-

mett's Drum and Fife Book, $1 per copy. WM. A.

POND & CO., Manufacturers of Musical Instruments and

Publishers of Music, 547 Broadway, New York.


Another possible source of tunes for Federal field musicians was the Excelsior Music Book, which first appeared in late 1863 or early 1864:


"Harpers," Volume: 1864 Issue: 02/20 Page Range: 0127b-0127b

In Press—Excelsior Music Book,

for Violin,

Flute, Fife, or Cornet. I love that dear old Flag the best,

piano. When the boys come home. Your fortune is too

small for me. My love is on the battle-field, each 25c.

Violin Strings 25c. mailed. Musical Instruments illus-

trated price list sent on receipt of post stamp.

FREDERICK BLUME, 208 Bowery, N. Y.

As memory serves, this series did provide a version of Lannigan's Ball, which Walt Whitman specifically recalled hearing being played by field musicians at the Grand Review in May 1865. I have tracked down a surviving portion of the Excelsior Music Book, which was clearly published in periodic installments, at the University of Pittsburgh. The version of Lannigan's Ball presented therein varies considerably from what you'll likely hear today, although it's still recognizable as that "oldie but moldy."

You be the judge.

Mark Jaeger

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: fifers' set list

As memory serves, this series did provide a version of Lannigan's Ball, which Walt Whitman specifically recalled hearing being played by field musicians at the Grand Review in May 1865. I have tracked down a surviving portion of the Excelsior Music Book, which was clearly published in periodic installments, at the University of Pittsburgh. The version of Lannigan's Ball presented therein varies considerably from what you'll likely hear today, although it's still recognizable as that "oldie but moldy."

You be the judge.

Mark Jaeger

In the process of authenticating a number of Irish songs for my company, I found an 1863 sheet music version of Lanigan's Ball, "arranged by C Glover." I believe that in Ireland the song even predates the war and could have reached the US before the war either with the Irish immigrants are through the habit of printers making some extra change by printing off song sheets for sale individually with little regard for the source, especially if it was a folk song or written by that prolific author - anonymous. None of this, of course, addresses the issue of when Army musicians would have started playing it.

Robert A. Mosher

[Smokey Toes]

Re: fifers' set list

FIELD MUSIC OF THE CIVIL WAR, Including extracts from, The 1861 Revised Regulations, Enactments of Congress, and Customs of Service. By David Poulin.

http://www.1stnmvi.com/field_music_of_the_civil_war.htm

"During the increase of volunteer troops at the outbreak of the Civil War the Army schools were in a terrible crunch to produce so many quality military musicians in such a short period of time. Normally, only the Principal Musicians from each regiment could attend. After graduating, they were expected to return to their respective regiments and train their junior musicians by method of rote memory. Music theory and rudiments were apparently meagerly applied. This method produced musicians and songs of various textures and quality.

To overcome the problems of a non-standardization, a manual was produced in 1862 by Bruce and Emmett, notable drummer and fifer respectively (Dan Emmett was principal fifer for the 6th Infantry and George Bruce was in charge of the music school at Governor's Island). This manual focused on the rudiments of music and training exercises as well as the Duty Calls themselves, and was used mostly by New York regiments on while a similar one was used by Connecticut regiments (Strube's Drum and Fife Instructor).

Massachusetts and northern New England units must have used Howe's since it was printed in Boston. Other regiments used Col. H.C. Hart's "New and Improved Instructor for the Drum" book which contained tunes of a simpler nature than Bruce and Emmett's; or Rumrille and Holton's "The Drummer's Instructor; or Martial Musician". The "Veteran Fifer's Guide" was written in the early 1900's by the veterans themselves from both sides of the conflict. It is interesting that Bruce's drum instruction can be traced back to direct descendance from the British Duty (George Carroll). "

I thought that this was a pretty interesting passage from Mr. Poulin's article as it indicates that B&E was prevalent primarily in NY units. I personally believe that is was more prevalent than has been argued, simply because it's publication date coincides with the raising of countless units and because it predates the end of the war by nearly 3 years. Given the lack of formal/standardized instruction, and its availability at the time, I think it is reasonable to believe that it was used to fill the instructional needs of many new musicians.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

"a manual was produced in 1862 by Bruce and Emmett....This manual...was used mostly by New York regiments on while a similar one was used by Connecticut regiments (Strube's Drum and Fife Instructor). "

I have been to this website before, and it shows that you can't believe eveything you read. Strube's manual was published in 1869, the author having served as a drummer in the 5th New York. Strube's manual was definitely not used by Connecticut regiments, and the camp duty found in Strube's manual reflects what was played by a New York musician but is quite different from B&E. In fact, it is very similar, sometimes identical to, what is in Howe's, Nevin's, Keach-Burditt-Cassidy's, and the AVF.

"Massachusetts and northern New England units must have used Howe's since it was printed in Boston. "

The following is from Andrew Kuntz:

"In 1860 Howe returned to publishing under his own name, re-established himself in Boston just at the start of the American Civil War. In addition to publishing, he manufactured drums for the Union Army and sold fifes to the numerous newly-forming martial organizations. Declining a government offer to serve as Director of Bands (which came with a rank of Lt. Colonel), Howe concentrated on supplying the government all he could sell with regard to musical instruments and publications. Some of the most popular of the latter items were his fife tutors (e.g. Army and Navy Fife Instructor, 1861), understandably in demand for training new military musicians. Ironically, finds Sky, “Howe discovered after the war that the majority of the books were distributed to the Rebel armies,” probably through a Kentucky firm."

I have been looking into finding more evidence concerning Howe's manuals entering Confederate service.

"Other regiments used Col. H.C. Hart's "New and Improved Instructor for the Drum" book which contained tunes of a simpler nature than Bruce and Emmett's"

Hart taught the 71st NY and the 102nd NY. Evidence of this can be found here: http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/mu...hart61sr.shtml
He also taught what later became the Moodus Drum and Fife Corps. Moodus, to this day, still uses Hart's beat for Yankee Doodle which was passed down from drummer to drummer by rote.

"The "Veteran Fifer's Guide" was written in the early 1900's by the veterans themselves from both sides of the conflict."

All of the contributors to the AVF were Union veterans. None were Confederate veterans.

"I thought that this was a pretty interesting passage from Mr. Poulin's article as it indicates that B&E was prevalent primarily in NY units. I personally believe that is was more prevalent than has been argued, simply because it's publication date coincides with the raising of countless units and because it predates the end of the war by nearly 3 years. Given the lack of formal/standardized instruction, and its availability at the time, I think it is reasonable to believe that it was used to fill the instructional needs of many new musicians."

Everyone wants to believe that B&E was used more than the evidence we have indicates. B&E represents the very best collection of fife and drum music ever published, hands down. Too bad that it represents what regular army musicians might have been playing rather than what 99% of fifers and drummers were playing.

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

Greetings,

About a year or so ago, I had the pleasure of reading a draft article by Sue Cifaldi, Company of Fifers and Drummers, discussing the debate over the alleged use (or non-use) of B&E. I won't give away the store, since I don't know if she's published it yet, but Sue's article does, among other things, explore the alleged military background of Dan Emmett and finds that there was a lot more--and less--than meets the eye. In sum, I think Sue presents a very persuasive argument that the influence of B&E among field musicians of the day was, at best, limited.

Interestingly, I have found contemporary ads for some other titles, which may provide further grist for debate. Here's one I found in, of all places, Godey's Lady's Book:

June, 1862
Godey's Lady's Book
Philadelphia
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Vol LXIV Page 612

OUR MUSICAL COLUMN.
***
The Drum and Fife.--It properly comes within the plan of our “Column,” perhaps, to notice here two new books published by Oliver Ditson & Co., Boston. The first is Winner's Guide for the Fife, a reliable book of instruction without the aid of a teacher, including a great number of operatic and popular airs. Price 50 cents.
The other is the Army Drum and Fife Book, containing full instructions, the Reveille, the Tattoo, the various calls and beats used in the service, and a number of popular airs, to which is added the Bugler's Call Book, with all the calls, infantry, skirmishers, etc., used in the U.S. Army. Price 75 cents.
***

The above quote leaves open the distinct possibility that Oliver Ditson's manuals were likely known, and even utilized from time to time, by Federal regiments raised in the Northeast. The fact that the "Army Drum and Fife Book" is described as "new" also suggests, to me anyway, that it likely first appeared during the Winter of 1861/62 or, at latest, Spring 1862.

Think about this stuff long enough...and you'll go nuts.

Mark Jaeger

[ThehosGendar]

Re: fifers' set list

Of course, this doesn't meant that you can't necessarily play some of the tunes which happen to be in Bruce and Emmett's. Obviously ones like Emmett's Quickstep are right out if you want to can B&E, but King William, Money Must, and several others also appear in earlier manuals (Money Must is in Aird's), and some are even traditional Irish tunes like The Pretty Girl Milking the Cow.

But, this now leads to a possible debate of how much access one had to these earlier manuals, if they were a fifer in a band before or war, and such, which will inevitably lead to a rather large headache and a dependence on Advil.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

Greetings,

About a year or so ago, I had the pleasure of reading a draft article by Sue Cifaldi, Company of Fifers and Drummers, discussing the debate over the alleged use (or non-use) of B&E. I won't give away the store, since I don't know if she's published it yet, but Sue's article does, among other things, explore the alleged military background of Dan Emmett and finds that there was a lot more--and less--than meets the eye. In sum, I think Sue presents a very persuasive argument that the influence of B&E among field musicians of the day was, at best, limited.

Interestingly, I have found contemporary ads for some other titles, which may provide further grist for debate. Here's one I found in, of all places, Godey's Lady's Book:

June, 1862
Godey's Lady's Book
Philadelphia
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Vol LXIV Page 612

OUR MUSICAL COLUMN.
***
The Drum and Fife.--It properly comes within the plan of our “Column,” perhaps, to notice here two new books published by Oliver Ditson & Co., Boston. The first is Winner's Guide for the Fife, a reliable book of instruction without the aid of a teacher, including a great number of operatic and popular airs. Price 50 cents.
The other is the Army Drum and Fife Book, containing full instructions, the Reveille, the Tattoo, the various calls and beats used in the service, and a number of popular airs, to which is added the Bugler's Call Book, with all the calls, infantry, skirmishers, etc., used in the U.S. Army. Price 75 cents.
***

The above quote leaves open the distinct possibility that Oliver Ditson's manuals were likely known, and even utilized from time to time, by Federal regiments raised in the Northeast. The fact that the "Army Drum and Fife Book" is described as "new" also suggests, to me anyway, that it likely first appeared during the Winter of 1861/62 or, at latest, Spring 1862.

Think about this stuff long enough...and you'll go nuts.

Mark Jaeger

The camp duty found in The Army Drum and Fife Book, written by Keach, Burditt, and Cassidy and published by Oliver Ditson is almost identical to that found in Howe's Drum and Fife Instructor. The camp duty found in the AVF, matches up with these two books as well. Since Civil War veteran musicians compiled the AVF, I think it is pretty safe to say that we know that at least SOME musicians were playing that version of the camp duty during the war. Wouldn't the veterans include the duty from B&E if it were used as much as the other versions? What actual evidence do we have, beyond mere speculation, that the duty calls found in B&E were actually used during the war by volunteer regiments?


Will Chappell

[Smokey Toes]

Re: fifers' set list

Why should we marginalize B&E's prevalence because of AVF? It provides valuable insight, but in no way represents what the majority of musicians were playing in an era where there was so much field music and it was so decentralized....That would be painting with an extremely wide brush. I also don't believe AVF was written to provide a definitive record of CW music. That kind of project would be next to impossible and is what is called "scope creep" in the military. Too huge of an undertaking.
The contributors to AVF represent a subset of thousands….

B&E is after all a primary source published during the second year of the war. AVF is not. For that reason, I still don’t believe that it wasn’t known of and used at the time. To me the question becomes in what number and how accessible was it.

“Too bad that it represents what regular army musicians might have been playing rather than what 99% of fifers and drummers were playing.” (Will)

Absolutely agree Will, but I don’t know if 99% would be an accurate figure. Your probably close, but I just don’t think that the volunteers lived in a bubble but were instead B&E's target audience.

“Think about this stuff long enough...and you'll go nuts..” (Mark)

Yep.

“But, this now leads to a possible debate of how much access one had to these earlier manuals, if they were a fifer in a band before or war, and such, which will inevitably lead to a rather large headache and a dependence on Advil.” (Jason)

Motrin…800mg…If they had it, they would of used it….

Good points all around…

[JKfifer119]

Re: fifers' set list

let us not forget the music published in the tactics manuals (Casey's, Hardee's etc)
just more mix for the soup,
I think the first step to enlightenment is to give up the notion that there was a single, unquestionable source as to what musicians played and then work from there, avoiding the pit falls of broad brushes and generalizations

its a tough but rewarding topic that we have only yet begun to scratch the surface of.
so much data and yet so little at the same time
jkorber

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

Why should we marginalize B&E's prevalence because of AVF? It provides valuable insight, but in no way represents what the majority of musicians were playing in an era where there was so much field music and it was so decentralized....That would be painting with an extremely wide brush. I also don't believe AVF was written to provide a definitive record of CW music. That kind of project would be next to impossible and is what is called "scope creep" in the military. Too huge of an undertaking.
The contributors to AVF represent a subset of thousands….

Good points all around…

AVF paints a pretty good picture of what CW fifers were playing. Here is a conservative list (there are many more) of some of the tunes in the AVF that are easily recognized as popular tunes of the mid-19th century for the fife and other instruments such as the fiddle.

Arkansas Traveler
Bartlett's Q.S.
Bob Tail Hoss
The Bonnie Blue Flag
Bonnie Doon
British Grenadiers
Campbells Are Coming
Carry Me Back To Virginny
Charley Over the Water
College Hornpipe
Cuckoo's Nest
The Dashing White Sergeant
Dixie
The Fifer's Delight
Finnigans Wake
Garry Owen
Girl I Left Behind Me
Go To The Devil And Shake Yourself
Granny Will Your Dog Bite
Guilderoy
Haste To The Wedding
Irish Washerwoman
Jefferson and Liberty
John Brown or Glory Halleluah
Johnny McGill
Jordan Is A Hard Road
Kinlock
Lamplighter's Hornpipe
Larry O'Gaff
Lassie of Gowie
Liverpool Hornpipe
McLeods Reel
Merry Men Home From The War
My Love She's But A Lassie Yet
O Lassie Art Thou Sleeping Yet
Old Dan Tucker
On The Road To Boston
O Susanna
The Raw Recruit
The Recruiting Sergeant
Ricketts Hornpipe
The Rogue's March
Rory O'More
Soldiers Joy
Turkey In The Straw
We Won't Go Home 'Till Morning
What Can The Matter Be
White Cockade
Wrecker's Daughter
Yankee Doodle

It would be pretty hard to come up with a list as long of commonly played tunes using only B&E.

Will Chappell

[Smokey Toes]

Re: fifers' set list

Will,

I’m not arguing that one should use "only" B&E, nor am I challanging the relevancy AVF. My only point is that I believe AVF being a subset of a huge population shouldn't marginalize a primary source that was available during the time.

Like I said AVF provides valuable insight into what was commonly played, as your post above illustrates.

I believe that within one single band, (out of hundreds) you would have heard a conglomeration of beatings for different tunes that evolved through time, training, ability, and or personal taste as opposed to the written rule. These beatings could have been inspired using any number of different written sources available at the time, or simply made up by their own inclination and ability.

This is the scope creep I was talking about, and why I believe that it is next to impossible to determine who played what and how.

Maybe some bands liked the way a particular beating fit into a particular tune. Maybe some guys within that band couldn't play or didn't like a particular rudiment of the beating as written so it was scrapped, replaced, or altered for simplicity's (or the band’s) sake, which then became the way THAT BAND ultimately played THAT TUNE.