fifers' set list

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

.

Fifers have always figured how to play a tune without sheet music.

On the bass drum issue, the ORs do have such rants, but we have photos of mid/late war Federal regiments w/ bass drums.

And am I mistaken, or is not one of the training tunes at the front of the fife turorial in B&E not "Oh Lassie aren't thou Sleeping Yet?" - "My Love is but a Lassie Yet?" That would make 3!

Jim Moffet
Co. A, Minnesota First

It's my opinion that most fifers in those days played by ear. I believe that the compilers of the music books got their tunes from the fifers more often than the fifers got their tunes from the music books. Howe actually got a lot of his tunes by writing down what he heard fiddlers playing.

There is a great photo of the 3oth PA at the Library of Congress. They're all grown men and the drums are all made of brass. The bass drummer is holding two beaters. They at least look like they could have been a pretty good sounding group of musicians. I'm not sure what the date is, though. What mid/late war photos do you know of that have bass drums, Jim? I'd be most interested.

You're right, Jim, but the tune in B&E is "My Love She is but a Lassie Yet". "Oh Lassie Art Thou Sleeping Yet" is a different tune. To make matters more confusing, there is another tune in the AVF called "Lassie of Gowrie".

[Jim Moffet]

Re: fifers' set list

The specific photo that comes to mind....

I don't have the book here at hand at the moment. Here's my recollection: In the 3rd book (I think) of the NHS 6 volume photographic history of the CW, published about 20 years ago, there is a great near full-page image of one of the regiments that took Champion's Hill. They are standing on a hill, in a column of divisions at half distance, w/ the field music in the front of the column. From memory - I'd say there were 3 fifers, 5 side drums, and a bass drummer.

When I get home, I will dig out the book, check the citation, and see if I can find a 'shareware' copy on the net for posting to the AC - if not, I will at least share the biblio data and page, etc.

Thanks for the pointer on the 'Lassie...'

Jim Moffet
Minnesota First

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

All this talk about bass drums has made me wonder about the style of drumming you typically hear being played by reenactors, which is very common among the non-reenactor "ancient" fife and drum corps. I'm not sure I want to open this can of worms but here goes....Were drumbeats with snare drum/bass drum duets played during the Civil War? (e.g. Jaybird/Fireman's Q.S., Adam Bell's March) I have examined the following manuals and have found no evidence of them.

1797 Benjamin Clark's Drum Book

1810 Hazeltine, David. Instructor in Martial Music

1812 Ashworth, Charles Stewart. A New, Useful and Complete System of Drum-beating

1812 Robbins, Charles. The Drum and Fife Instructor

1817 Potter, Samuel. The Art of Beating the Drum

1817 Rumrille, J. L. and H. Holton. The Drummer's Instructor

1818,1820,1826 Robinson, Alvan, Jun. Massachusetts Collection of Martial Musick

1819 Lovering, Levi. The Drummer's Assistant.

1836 Cooper, Samuel. A Concise System of Instructions and Regulations for the Militia and Volunteers of the United States

1860 The Drum Tutor, with . . . tunes and pieces arranged for the Fife and Drum.

1861 Keach, Burditt, and Cassidy. The Army Drum and Fife Book.

1861/1864 Nevins, William. Army Regulations for Drum, Fife, and Bugle.

1862 Bruce, George B. and Dan D. Emmett. The Drummer's and Fifer's Guide.

1862 Hart, Col. H.C. Col. H.C. Hart's New and Improved Instructor for the Drum.

1862 Howe, Elias. Howe's United States Regulation Drum and Fife Instructor.

1869 Strube, Gardiner A. Strube's Drum and Fife Instructor.

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

All this talk about bass drums has made me wonder about the style of drumming you typically hear being played by reenactors, which is very common among the non-reenactor "ancient" fife and drum corps. I'm not sure I want to open this can of worms but here goes....Were drumbeats with snare drum/bass drum duets played during the Civil War? (e.g. Jaybird/Fireman's Q.S., Adam Bell's March) I have examined the following manuals and have found no evidence of them.

1797 Benjamin Clark's Drum Book

1810 Hazeltine, David. Instructor in Martial Music

1812 Ashworth, Charles Stewart. A New, Useful and Complete System of Drum-beating

1812 Robbins, Charles. The Drum and Fife Instructor

1817 Potter, Samuel. The Art of Beating the Drum

1817 Rumrille, J. L. and H. Holton. The Drummer's Instructor

1818,1820,1826 Robinson, Alvan, Jun. Massachusetts Collection of Martial Musick

1819 Lovering, Levi. The Drummer's Assistant.

1836 Cooper, Samuel. A Concise System of Instructions and Regulations for the Militia and Volunteers of the United States

1860 The Drum Tutor, with . . . tunes and pieces arranged for the Fife and Drum.

1861 Keach, Burditt, and Cassidy. The Army Drum and Fife Book.

1861/1864 Nevins, William. Army Regulations for Drum, Fife, and Bugle.

1862 Bruce, George B. and Dan D. Emmett. The Drummer's and Fifer's Guide.

1862 Hart, Col. H.C. Col. H.C. Hart's New and Improved Instructor for the Drum.

1862 Howe, Elias. Howe's United States Regulation Drum and Fife Instructor.

1869 Strube, Gardiner A. Strube's Drum and Fife Instructor.

Guillermus Maximus,

Have you tried contacting Sue Cifaldi? If she isn't able to answer your question, she likely knows somebody who can. Incidentally, on the "bass drum thing," I've found some very nice images of bass drummers (one of them a black Alabamian), which you might enjoy. I'll see if I can dig them out and get them posted.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

Another ad. This one comes from the 27 September 1862 Harper's Illustrated Weekly, p. 623:

DRUM AND FIFE BOOKS.

UNION DRUM AND FIFE BOOK, containing In-
structions, the whole Camp Duty and Choice Music. 50
cents. MODERN SCHOOL FOR THE DRUM, con-
taining Instructions, the Reveille, Tattoo, Calls and Beats
used in United States Service, and Music for Fife and
Drum. 50 cents. ARMY DRUM AND FIFE BOOK.
50 cents. WINNER'S PERFECT GUIDE FOR
FIFE, with 150 Operatic and Popular Airs. 50 cents.
DRAPER'S FIFE MELODIES. 50 cents. FIFE
WITHOUT A MASTER. 50 cents. HOWE'S
SCHOOL FOR FIFE. 30 cents. Mailed, post-paid.
OLIVER DITSON & CO., Boston.

What's most interesting to me is that Draper's Melodies, which was reportedly a poor seller after it was first published in 1855, was still being advertised by O. Ditson & Co. at least as late as 1862. Given that Ditson offered his works via mail order, we can only wonder how much of his business catered to the "soldier trade."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

Yet another ad from Harper's Illustrated Weekly (20 May 1865, p. 320d):

MUSIC OMNIBUS.

Musician's Omnibus No. 1.—700 pieces music; 40 sets
quadrilles; 100 contra and fancy dances, with calls; polkas,
&c., $1. Musician's Omnibus No. 2.—850 pieces; 200
Scotch, 200 Irish, 200 opera airs, 100 duets, waltzes, &c., $1.
Musician's Omnibus Complete—contains all in Nos. 1 and
2, and much other music for violin, flute, cornet, fife, flage-
olet, clarionet, &c., $2. Howe's new violin, flute, guitar,
Banjo, accordeon, concertina, fife, drum, flageolet, and
clarionet without a master, 50c. each. Howe's 100 duets
for two violins, flutes, or cornets, 50c. Sent by mail, post-
paid. ELIAS HOWE 103 Court Street, Boston.

Mark Jaeger

[Jim Moffet]

Re: fifers' set list

I would love to see what Sue Cifaldi has found - it may blast my notions out of the water.... Mark, are ANY of the bass drum images shown with the drum mounted "squarely" - for 2 handed sticking, or are they all tilted?

I've gone round & round in my head on the bass drum music question...the photo I mentioned earlier of the 2nd Minnesota in 1861 shows the bass drummer with what appears to be an over the shoulder sling (rather than around the neck) and the drum at a tilt, and one would have to assume from this rig that he only had one beater and was playing a down beat, and not two handed rudiments. This is the same style as seen in brass band photos.

But if we buy the concept that most fifers could learn tunes from rote, by extrapolation I consider the drummers in a regiment. I assume they all started out as snare drummers, and once they were proficient, they could play most of the rudiments. Now strap one of them onto the bass drum and play "H%$# on the Wabash." I can just see his left hand playing "air bass" on the triple flamadiddles! Or, by contrast, if they had a 'band' bass drummer in the field music: how long would it have been before a snare drummer, or the PM, suggested "Thomas, why don't you play the paradiddles in that beating?" How long would it have taken for them to get a second beater? Since Buell & Thomas were so concerned about bass drumming, there must have been bigger noise than down-beat strokes? And to continue my musing - all it would have taken was for ONE bass drummer to have gone 'hand-to-hand' for every self-respecting regiment in the corps with any drummers to want to buy a bass drum! If the colonel was proud of his tete du colonne, and that other unit had a bass, he's take up the collection himself!

I realize this is all conjecture on my part, but as has been noted above in this thread, so much of what field music did in a given regiment at a give year of the war has to be stretched out of so few sources....Tonight I'll find that mid-war photo and see how the bass is mounted.

Jim Moffet
Minnesota First

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

These two images come from Harper's Illustrated Weekly. Needless to say, allow for a lot of artistic license. I know of at least one other bass drum image in Harper's, but I'll have to track that one down and send it separately.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: fifers' set list

Here's a nice image of the Camp Stoneman band, featuring a bass drummer, which I extracted from a much larger photograph. To get a good look, use View>Zoom>500% once you're in MS Word.

Enjoy,

Mark Jaeger

[JKfifer119]

Re: fifers' set list

that bass drum beater looks like a leg of lamb, yikes
good pic

[joewhitney]

Re: fifers' set list

Boy, didn't we get active all the sudden. Went from fifer's tune list to bass drums in one day. Must be cabin fever.

AVF seems to me to be a pretty accurate record of what UNION musicians were playing during the war. No ex-rebs in the GAR, you know. Since many of the tunes appear in the manuals, and were well-known among the general population,

I think you'd be surprised how many, if not most, of the tunes in B&E go back, some even to the Revolution. For instance, there's the Quick March of the Royal DOWNSHIRE Militia, Fort McHenry (a.k.a. Virginia March"), and even Jaybird Q.S. (The Lady's Breast Knot) .

The primary reason Draper's manuals didn't sell well is he composed all the tunes himself, instead of using popular tunes like Hart, Howe, B&E, etc. did. People always buy music they know first.

The melody to Lannigan's Ball is an old one, called Tecumseh in Rumrille & Holton's 1817 manual.

Will, when you say drum and bass duets, do you mean the bass drum playing along with the snare, or do you mean bass and snare with no fifes? In Hart's manual, he includes a couple of pages of bass drum beats (and they re in the ancient style mostly" to go with these tunes"

British Grenadiers
General 2/4 Quick Step (Moonlight Q.S.)
Different Style 6/8 Q.S., to be played with Fifers Delight, Humors of..(can't read it), Over the River (Water) to Charley and Who'll be King But Charly
Hessian Quick Step
Rosebud Reel
Duke of York's Troop
Evening Star Q.S.

In Bayard's Fiddle-Fife book, there are a lot of versions of Hell on the Wabash, also called Hell On the Rappahannock, Hell On the Potomac, etc. Since the Rappahannock isn't near Pennsylvania, it was probably a widely known tune, or at least title, since several tunes had the Wabash title as well. There's a great fiddle version in Howe's 187 "Ryan's Mammoth Collection of Fiddle Tunes"

http://www.amazon.com/Ryans-Mammoth-Collection-Fiddle-Tunes/dp/0786603003

As has been mentioned David Poulin's comments are riddled with errors. As I said earlier, if there had been that many B&E's printed during the war, there'd be some around today. Instead, there are lots of Howe manuals, Ditson "Modern School of the Drum" manuals (two on ebay in the same week), and Keach Burditt & Cassidys. Almost no Hart manuals either, by the way, even though several editions were published during the war. The hard-to-decipher drum notation probably didn't help sales.

Also note that there are often references to fife and drum corps as "bands", including the before-mentioned Wolcott Drum Band. But usually it was field music (officers tended to call the bands). The only place I ever heard it referred to as "Drum Corps" was in B&E.

Anyone in the DC area wanting to shake off that cabin fever with some fifes and drums, remember the Leesburg Jam hosted by the Loudoun Border Guards is this afternoon (Sat. 2pm).

Joe Whitney
2d SC String Band
Md Line Field Music

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

I wasn't questioning the two-stick bass drum technique. There's even 2-stick bass drum beats in Runrille and Holton's 1817 manual. My George Carroll edition of Hart's only has the bass drum part for common time, but there are definitely double-accented paradiddles in it. I would like to see the rest of the bass parts in Hart's. George states in his edition that there was a hand-written bass drum insert that Hart was going to put in a later edition.

I was actually talking about "bass drum solos", i.e. beats where the snare drummers rest and the bass drummer wails away. I don't think those are in the manuals. I'll attach some photos of two-beater bass drummers later on.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: fifers' set list

from Hart's:
"...the Police Drum call will be beat for the Drum Corps to assemble....ten minutes after the assembly, the First Sergeant's Call will be beat by the full drum corps...."

from Howe's:

"Quick Step for Drum Corps"

"German Drum Corps Beat, or march"

the above are also in Keach, Burditt and Cassidy's Army Drum and Fife Book as well as:


the Reveille, arranged by A.J. Cassidy, Principal Drummer in...and Indepedent Cadet Drum Corps"

B&E has "Quick Steps for Drum Corps" and also states that the "field music" will assemble for reveille

I thought that "the band" referred to brass, regimental and brigade bands . You're probably right about groups of fifers and drummers sometimes being called "drum bands" , though, Joe. You probably have more examples.

[Jim Moffet]

Re: fifers' set list

I found the photo! It's of the 17th Illinois , and the caption says 'they stand for the camera in early 1864." 4 fifers out front (3 in shell jackets and 1 in a sack coat) 5 snare drummers , and one bass drummer w/ the drum mounted for 2 handed drumming (ie, not at a 'tilt'). He is clearly wearing a double strap harness of the sort one would expect on a 'modern' bass drum.

The photo is cited to the National Archives. It can be found in:

Davis, William C.. Fighting for Time. in The Images of War: 1861-1865. v. IV. The National Historical Society. Doubleday & Co. New York. 1983. Page 59.

If any of you can find it on the web...it would be well worth sharing!

Jim Moffet
First Minnesota

[Horton]

Re: fifers' set list

Adressing the bass drum parts, Last year at a Rev War event here in Savannah George Carrol told me that the bass drum plays the snare part minus the rolls. Now I dont believe on going off of hearsay but he has seemed to have done the most research out of anybody i have heard of.