Bass Drumming

[Alan Lloyd]

Friends

I have some questions along the line started in an earlier thread

1) It appears that there were at least two styles of bass drumming in the CW period:

a) A single beater playing on the beat, with the drum held at an angle

b) More complex drumming with two beaters and the drum held vertically. A post in the prior thread described this style as using the same beating as the snare without the rolls.

Does this correctly summarize the current thought?

2) Does anyone have a source of leather covered beaters in the period style? I have sent a pair off to a leathersmith, but am not sure he is interested in doing it.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

Friends

I have some questions along the line started in an earlier thread

1) It appears that there were at least two styles of bass drumming in the CW period:

a) A single beater playing on the beat, with the drum held at an angle

b) More complex drumming with two beaters and the drum held vertically. A post in the prior thread described this style as using the same beating as the snare without the rolls.

Does this correctly summarize the current thought?

2) Does anyone have a source of leather covered beaters in the period style? I have sent a pair off to a leathersmith, but am not sure he is interested in doing it.

Bass drums were played several ways, sometimes with one beater, sometimes with two.

A bass drum can be and often was played with the drum held parallel to the body with one beater. I have seen more photos with this set-up than the angled drum.

The only music available for CW bass drumming, as Joe Whitney pointed out, is in Hart's manual, and in it the bass plays during the 15 stroke rolls.

The only potential evidence that the bass rested during the rolls is in B&E. There are rests that appear under the rolls. Did the authors intend the notation to be used for snare and bass? We don't know, but I suppose it is possible. That style of drumming is a northeastern tradition. But the twirling of the beaters above the head during the rolls is a later addition, I believe. Gus Moeller, who observed the Civil War veteran drummers had some strong opinions about drumming. Read below:

"Nick - Incidently, Gus Moeller used belong to Mt. Vernon and we...used to argue about rudimental bass drumming...Gus claimed that I couldn't keep a true or good tempo and swing over head. Hell was he ever wrong."

Another drummer who knew Moeller told me that if he knew what some fife and drum corps were doing these days that "he'd raise hell". Also Moeller "wouldn't let you put a rag in one of his drums", i.e. a muffler. And this was in the 1950's.

Alan, I'll send you a PM about a source for bass drum beaters. The bass drum beaters and sticks Cooperman sells, with the exception of the Civil War and Halifax snare models, aren't like the ones used during the CW.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Bass Drumming

Will,

Where in Hart's does it mention the bass playing on the 15-stroke rolls? Hart's is a cool resource for some great beats (M. Conklin's 2-4 Flam Tap Beat rocks), but I don't find anything in there mentioning a bass drum in the lesson in the beginning of the book.

The rests underneath the rolls in B&E are mysterious, and I've thought about them, too, but they appear on 7-rolls and higher. Would this mean that the bass would perform a 5-roll? That would be tricky! But again, B&E doesn't mention basses either.

The only bass books I've seen are from the Port Royal and Manchester cornet band books in the LOC collection. There are a few measures with "3" "5" and "10" written on them, and but whether this means rolls or to continue as the previous measure for that many measures, we can't be sure.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

Will,

Where in Hart's does it mention the bass playing on the 15-stroke rolls? Hart's is a cool resource for some great beats (M. Conklin's 2-4 Flam Tap Beat rocks), but I don't find anything in there mentioning a bass drum in the lesson in the beginning of the book.

The rests underneath the rolls in B&E are mysterious, and I've thought about them, too, but they appear on 7-rolls and higher. Would this mean that the bass would perform a 5-roll? That would be tricky! But again, B&E doesn't mention basses either.

The only bass books I've seen are from the Port Royal and Manchester cornet band books in the LOC collection. There are a few measures with "3" "5" and "10" written on them, and but whether this means rolls or to continue as the previous measure for that many measures, we can't be sure.

I have George Caroll's edition of Hart's. All it has is the bass drum part for Common Time that Mr. Carroll interpreted from a hand-written page in his original. Joe Whitney's copy has more bass drum parts. See what he said below:

"The only kind of period drumming where you would see that style, bass drum playing with the snare tacit, is band drumming, as with the percussion section of a band, such as where the bass drum would play the downbeat and the snare the remainder of the measure.

For Civil War rudimental bass drumming, there is only one surviving example, and that is those bass drum parts from Hart's manual I mentioned above. It is basically standard rudimental bass drumming as we know it today, with the exception of 15 stroke rolls at the beginning of the B parts. Today, the bass beats once on the snare flam before the downbeat, once on the snare flam downbeat, and at the end of the 15, which is the beginning of the next measure. In Hart's style, the bass drum also beats three extra times through the middle of the 15 stroke roll, which probably helped soldiers marching with the music to maintain their step while the snare was rolling."

There aren't rests under 15-stroke rolls in B&E either.....
For a real mystery, look at Pretzel Waltz. Are those rests typos?

If you think about the timing of a 5-stroke roll (they're quick), then you'll realize why a rest under a 5 wouldn't work.

I think Dodworth's book has snare and bass parts also. I'm sure that the numbers in the other band books that you mentioned are the number of measures to repeat, like you said. Rolls are nearly impossible on a bass drum, and it would sound bad that way -- it would drown out the music. Have you ever heard how loud an unmuffled bass drum is? Band drumming had a lot of the simple "boom-chick, boom-chick" drumming from what I've seen. The bass drum could have easily repeated the same beat for 10 bars. 10-stroke roll on a bass drum? The only place I've seen a ten-stroke roll on the snare is in the reveille.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Bass Drumming

That Hart's sounds awesome. I wish I could see that.

I was thinking that would be weird to roll on a bass, too. I know it's nearly impossible to roll on the bass, and if you could, it'd sound like mud. I'll have to work those extra beats into my drum corps. Neat-o torpedo.

Always neat to find little surprises here and there. A long time ago, I had felt a little weird about harmonies in fife parts, and lo and behold, here comes Cushing's 1804 "Fifer's Companion" complete with harmonies, or, as he calls them, seconds.

Dodworth's does have a line in there for "drums and cymbal." I don't know whether it means combined snare and bass as drums, or snare only, with the cymbal part able to be substituted with a bass.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

The early 19th century fife books like Cushing have more harmony parts than those of the mid 19th. But there is evidence that some fifers played harmony around the time of the Civil War -- Draper's fife book.

[markj]

Re: Bass Drumming

FWIW,

***“Well, here’s a characteristic story on old [Isaac] Hull of frigate Constitution memory. Hull was noted for having the bump of official economy developed to that degree that it amounted to a mania. The first lieutenant of his ship had very frequently presented, for signature, requisitions for bass-drum heads for use of the frigate’s band. Hull had conceived the idea that a leak existed in this department. Determined to satisfy himself, he watched the band closely at play. He made the discovery, to his own satisfaction at least. Calling the bass-drummer to his side, he interviewed him as follows: ‘You d—d scoundrel! I’ve been watching you closely, and now know why you have been making so many requisitions for new drum-heads. You keep beating the drum on the same spot in the middle. That’s why you wear them out so fast! You beat your drum all around the sides in future, or, d—n you, I’ll give you a dozen of the “cats.”’***

Source: Sinclair, Arthur [Late Lieutenant, C.S.N.] Two Years on the Alabama. Boston MA: Lee and Shepard Publishers, 1895, p. 135.

[pjdrums96]

Re: Bass Drumming

Compliments of Pete Emerick,

HISTORY OF THE TOWN OF SKANEATELES

Town of Skaneateles

Submitted by Sue Goodfellow

Source: Past and Present of Syracuse and Onondaga County by The Rev. William M. Beauchamp. NY: S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1908, pp. 421-431.



Old Peter Pell, odd, honest and independent, was of good Hudson River stock, and delighted in his bass drum. He used to usher in the greater days with bass drum solos. He had a trick of throwing up his drum sticks with a twirl, and catching them in time for the next stroke. Didn't the boys think him a wonderful man? He thought so himself. In 1860 he went to a Syracuse parade to hear and see a noted drummer. He said to the writer: "I've seen what they call the best drummer in New York, but I tell you he can't touch me; he can't touch me." Nor could he.



I just eat this stuff up!!

Patrick Jones
Camp Chase Fife and Drums

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

Compliments of Pete Emerick,

Old Peter Pell, odd, honest and independent, was of good Hudson River stock, and delighted in his bass drum. He used to usher in the greater days with bass drum solos. He had a trick of throwing up his drum sticks with a twirl, and catching them in time for the next stroke. Didn't the boys think him a wonderful man? He thought so himself. In 1860 he went to a Syracuse parade to hear and see a noted drummer. He said to the writer: "I've seen what they call the best drummer in New York, but I tell you he can't touch me; he can't touch me." Nor could he.

We have to be careful not to take the wrong interpretation from this one. The bass drum solos mentioned above likely refer to the practice of the bass drum being played without any snare drums or fifes at all. This was literally a true bass drum "solo", not the same kind used today such as the bass drum solos in Adam Bell's. That well-written, but non-period style beat was created around 1974 by George Carroll, and not taken from or adapted from any period beatings.

The bass drum was definitely used as a solo instrument in the early 1800's with mitilia companies. Pete Emerick, who supplied the above quote, told me he has "several period accounts to the performance of the "large barrel drum" and the resounding noise provided by the same as the militia paraded through the streets with no mention of side/tenor/snare or fife accompaniment." He actually owns some of these drums himself.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

Food for thought:

from the Middlesex Gazette, 30 Aug 1826. Talking about the bass drum:


". . . The object of this tremendous instrument is not to please the
ear, but by giving a few forcible strokes, in coincidence with the
accent in the music, is to assist the troops in marching correctly. The
less there is of filling up by beats, between the stronger strokes, at
which the foot of the soldier is to descend, the better for him. . . "

[pjdrums96]

Re: Bass Drumming

Will,

Thank you for the clarification. I never intended the quote to be taken as a solo while other members were performing, as in field music or band music. I woud hate to see a fife and drum corps with a bass drummer throwing his mallets in the air.

Patrick Jones
Camp Chase Fife and Drums

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: Bass Drumming

Will,

Thank you for the clarification. I never intended the quote to be taken as a solo while other members were performing, as in field music or band music. I woud hate to see a fife and drum corps with a bass drummer throwing his mallets in the air.

Patrick Jones
Camp Chase Fife and Drums

Patrick,

I know when I first read that excerpt, my jaw dropped open and I didn't know how to interpret it. Luckily Pete set me straight. A great quote though. It really surprises me that a drummer would prefer the bass drum.

[Alan Lloyd]

Re: Bass Drumming

Friends
Thanks for all the information. As to spinning the beaters; look at the etching at the top of this page http://www.jvmusic.net/CivilWarBrassBandspage1.html

Would not the raised beater indicate some sort of non musical embellishment, such as "twirling" ?

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Bass Drumming

It took me a little while to dig it up again, but here's an interesting little account from the 15th Connecticut, during a guard mount while the unit was stationed at New Berne, N.C. (emphasis my own):

"These parades were the pride of the regiment. Any regular army officer might have been envious of them. They were the embodiment of what discipline could accomplish, and both officers and men scarcely dared breathe while they were in progress. There was one occasion however, when the gravity of the warriors was most sorely tried, indeed they utterly failed to keep it, and broke out into one prolonged howl of delight.

The incident happened at brigade guard mount. Adjutant Rand had his men in superb array. Every movement was time to perfection and every soldier moved like a machine. When the evolutions reached that point where the band parades, that windy body struck out as a hundred times before, while the lines stood absolutely motionless. On the return, the time is usually quickened; in this instance, the musicians had reached about midway the force, every man blowing his best, with Bush the big bass drum man bringing up the rear, twirling such gyrations of his drumsticks as he only could flourish. It was an imposing spectacle. Capt. White’s bosom (officer of the day) swelled with emotion, and Adjutant Rand vowed there was never anything like it before. Suddenly, an innocent tent pin rose up out of the ground, directly in front of the big drum; Bush caught his toe on it; alas, alas! up went the drumsticks in the air, and down went the musician on top of his drum; the momentum of the pace carried both along, the drum rolling it forward, and he prone on his stomach was riding it, his arms and legs flying in al directions in frantic efforts to stop. Well, it was a sight. Nothing like it had ever been seen before. Words cannot picture the utter ludicrousness of the scene; self-control was impossible, and such a mighty burst of laughter as went up from the throats of the boys in the ranks, was never heard before or since, in all North Carolina."

Curious!

From:
Sheldon Thorpe, The History of the Fifteenth Connecticut Volunteers in the War for the Defense of the Union (New Haven: Price, Lee & Adkins, 1893), 204-05.