Principle Musicians

[toptimlrd]

Re: Principle Musicians

Actually most companies do belong to a larger organization. I hope I don't overstep the rules of the forum here but I am going to use my mainstream company as an example (mods edit if I am overstepping): We are one company within the Department of the Gulf. The department sets up the command structure at the events we go to in many cases. For events we go to that the DOG does not have authority over we fall in under the organizing body's structure.

Now in the world this forum is dedicated to, authentic events; often the rank structure is based on the size of the event and the Officers and NCOs are chosen ahead of time to fill the necessary slots. In other words, just because you are a captain within your home unit, you may be a private at an event based on the needs of the organizing body.

CW reenacting rank is (or should be) determined basically the same way it is in the real military, by experience and skill. If you are just starting out, you should figure on being a private for some time before even thinking about stitching on a set of corporal stripes. I've been reenacting about five years now and have served as a corporal and a 2nd Sgt. at individual events where it was needed, but my position within my unit is still a private. If your unit does things like most, the rank has more implications than pretty stripes on the sleve for the show, our NCOs and officers have "real jobs" for the unit such as organizing events, maintaining rosters, attending meetings for the elected leaders, etc. Also the rank should be bestowed by the unit and organizing body, nobody gives themselves promotions. As an example, when I started out the head of our unit was also our CO, he has since been asked to serve on the brigade staff and now leads a brigade when the DOG falls in en masse, that means we elected a new Captain. Now when both ranks are not needed for a smaller event, guess what? One of them dons a private's uniform and falls in to the ranks with no rank whatsoever. Often to have rank means you either must be willing to take it off and sew it on over and over or have more than one uniform.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Principle Musicians

A Battalion or Regimental sized formation calls for PMs, not company level/size events. It also would call for 1 maybe 2. Not a 10 man f/d corps where half are wearing chevrons... which I have been seeing lately and it's rediculous. But I think this is due to people wanting to feel important and ego thing more than an authenticity thing. I was a PM in my younger years for a battalion sized F/D group. It was a lot of work, but even though some soldiers treated me as an NCO I did not expect it, being practically a kid but at 15/16 I had still been drumming the hobby for 3-4 years. My job was to provide functioning field music for the battalion.
My concern is for anyone excited about sewing some chevrons on their shoulder, might be doing it for the wrong reasons, and if you don't already have the knowledge of the position you might not want to be doing it, because someone eventually will make you look like a fool.

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Principle Musicians

One of my biggest things is at events that I am PM, being young, I don't get respect from other musicians even if there my age. Plain and simple fact is young people for the most part don't like being told what to do by someone there age. That's why I do where stripes at events that I am PM. At company sized events I'm just an average Joe.
Regards,

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Principle Musicians

Respect is earned. If you give a little you get a little back. If the musicians falling under you want to be authentic they will follow you, or you need to task them out on some details for them to think about their attitude. If they don't want to play allong, then they probably are not the quality of living historian you need to be surrounding yourself with.

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Principle Musicians

I just started the position back in Feb. so I'm just now getting used to it. One thing I have noticed is the musicians that who do not like following orders lean more towards farby and the musicians who take them seriously lean more to the authentic side. One problem with the musicians in our battalion is that most don't show up at events and we don't even have a fifer.:cry_smile

[federal_musician]

Re: Principle Musicians

Your problem might be that you are trying to work with people who are more "musician" than "historian."

Have you considered looking around for anyone who would like to learn to play the fife (or any other instrument or drum)? Sometimes it is easier for a disciplined historian to learn to play music than for an average musician to learn discipline.

Fran Long
Brigade Brass Band

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Principle Musicians

I think you are right with that Fran.

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Principle Musicians

I think Fran hit the nail on the head. The guys I was trying to work with could play sufficiently but knew nothing about the war and nothing about the documentation of the cadences they were. How would one go about putting a "wanted add" on the AC for a fifer?

[Fifer37thNC]

Re: Principle Musicians

Hey Andrew it's me JD, from the 37th NC. Are you going to Gettysburg Living History this weekend?

John David Mayo

[RJSamp]

Re: Principle Musicians

Not a 10 man f/d corps where half are wearing chevrons... which I have been seeing lately and it's rediculous.

Hey Brett, haven't heard from you in a long while, welcome back! So which event is this with a 10 man fife and drum corps and 5 wearing chevrons? Inquiring minds want to know.

I know for Parade we have two PM Chevrons......3 -4 fifers, 1-2 drummers, 3 buglers..... The FFD insists I wear PM chevrons, which I have diligently sewn into my frock coat....but am not going to take them off for each event where they want me to wear a Frock/Sash/White gloves.... Smunt is our fifer extraordinaire and PM, I'm just the lowly chief bugler.

When we go on the field for battle I just wear a sack coat and leave the chevrons back 'home'.

[newrycassidy]

Re: Principle Musicians

Drum Major with 1st PA Reserves/30th PA Vol Inf is wearing an adapted Regimental QM Sgt stripes wit star--someting I seen with other Fife and Drum corps ( Field Music ) the Sgt Major style was may have been more common with bands --at least in photos.
see

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/003.jpg

Mike Cassidy
Field Music 1st PRVC
(BSA Troop 53 Fife & Drum Corps)

[RJSamp]

Re: Principle Musicians

Drum Major with 1st PA Reserves/30th PA Vol Inf is wearing an adapted Regimental QM Sgt stripes wit star--someting I seen with other Fife and Drum corps ( Field Music ) the Sgt Major style was may have been more common with bands --at least in photos.
see

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/003.jpg

Mike Cassidy
Field Music 1st PRVC
(BSA Troop 53 Fife & Drum Corps)

Have always enjoyed this picture. 4 fifers in front, with the one on our right even farther out front (my guess he's their principal Fifer). SO who is the mystery man in front of the tent in the BACK ROW??? Inquiring minds want to know.... Bugler? Cymbal player? Adjutant? And how about the 'hunched' over kid at the corner of the tent.. with the light shining off of his cap brim? The tent says BlackSmith on the flap.....

[Jim Moffet]

Re: Principle Musicians

My previous post on this thread had a link to the photo of PM Henry Fifield of the First Minnesota. As so often happens, the site has moved to a new host, so the link is dead - here's the new link:

http://www.1stminnesota.net/SearchResults.php3?ID=0264

Jim Moffet

[chaplain]

Re: Principal Musicians

So, do I have this right?

1. Each regiment had 2 PMs.
2. One PM was the Chief Musician of the band, the other was the PM of the field music
3. The PM was an NCO, and on staff (not part of a company)
4. The PM may also be the Chief Bugler, Drum Major, or Fife Major
5. Chief Bugler, Fife Major, & Drum Major were the leaders of others who played their instrument within the regt/batt.
6. Each company had 2-3 field musicians (drum, fife, and/or bugle)

Question: Was there a "staff structure" to the musicians? For instance:

Adjutant
PM (Chief Musician of band)
-band members
PM (field music)
A. chief bugler
-company buglers
B. fife major
-company fifers
C. drum major
-company drummers

(thus the confusion of the seemingly interchangeable names for the position)??

[Indianabugles]

Re: Principle Musicians

Random thought caused by Andy, Brett and Kowiak!!
I am the only Battlefield Bugler in our regiment and am generaly attached to staff/CO etc (Generally Captain or Major) when the battle is on. I have permission to wear a sash as per principle musician but it is rare I do. I have a big shining Claron to say who I am, why do I need stripes? I am/would be target enough for CS Sharpshooters without adding any more attention to self. (Agree with the sack coat comment)
Certainly my job is to play Bugle as required and it can get fair busy. Do need to command anyone? No, If there are more than one on the field, rare indeed then a discussion at battle start can establish who will do what and it seems to me that there are enugh units with one Sgt, two Cprls and four Pvts in Reenacting as a whole without adding more stripes to the parade.
I am assumed to be the Chief Bugler and am happy at that, also I am the company musician as I play many instruments and have even considered the fact that I wear a musicians frock and a diddy Music sword a little too austentatious for a late 62 onwards battlefield musician/bugler without adding sashes or stripes.
I may perhaps ask for permission to do so (our regiment likes you to) if we had perhaps four or five buglers/drummers regular, but this would also look a tad daft alongside perhaps 150 US infantry, which is what the event numbers are here (Tops), please excuse if they are waaaaay greater in the US. Aso if I had a period band or a drum corp, which don't.
Guess the points am rambling my way to is...

1.. I will get real good at bugling, do the job, be the camp clock, signal. on call etc. Get out of doing guard duty(See manuals) won't carry a heavy musket on parade marches. enjoy. Doing it anywhere near right eats up a, lot of time and the last thing I want is more responsibility and stripes. Let the CPLs and SGTs fuss over domestics, assignement of pickets, etc.

2.. Buglers coming up will generaly defer to the most knowlegable/tecnically able one and we will learn off each other and establish an order without having to wear stripes, plus the fact it can be fun to switch bugler roles. I would love anoher bugler to share the job with (And still skip Guard Duty LOL!)
I have been, up till last year the junor of three semi regular buglers and we have never felt the need to stripe up, we just sort of took it in turn, they agreed per event and then assigned me on occasion for the experience. It has been hard enough to get the Inf to get bugle calls without imposing ranks or seniority on each other.

Random thought over!
(apologies to those in big units as this probably don't apply to them)
P.S. you also get out of guard duty!!!