Songs for Children

[Emily Burns]

As music is a huge part of popular culture from the youngest to the very old, I was wondering over the weekend how to cultivate this aspect of living history in my children. As I understand it, everyone was to contribute to the entertainment in the parlor. The Girl's Own Book contains Hot Cross Buns and Frere Jacques. Sarah also has in her possession Watt's Divine and Moral Songs for Children, which can only be read as poetry as we don't know the tunes.

Are the old familiar songs like Oh, Susannah and Pop Goes the Weasel appropriate? What songs have you taught your children and where can I go to learn more?

Kind regards,
Emily Burns

[Danny]

Re: Songs for Children

Emily -

For one I recommend "Ole King Crow", an antebellum-era song with popular appeal at the time, but in particular because it has great "cawing" shouts in it which perhaps 2nd graders and up can join in on. Carson Hudson has a sample of it for a listen, you can Google his site.

O Susanna! is good, as is "Pop Goes the Weasel" Keeping in mind these were not intended for children at the time, but for popular stage performance. Many popular stage songs were written to be performed in a mimic of Southern negro dialect, which may be hard to pass with children's groups today. So perhaps you sing them in an inauthentic normal dialect. You must decide, history or participation - which is the primary message? If history, I'm not sure how you do that with children because you can't explain context of the times.

"Pop Goes the Weasel", you may be aware, was not originally about a long furry little animal, rather it was an expression of hard financial times, where a person loses their livelihood. (A 'weasel' is the set of tools needed in any particular trade) because the subjects in the lyrics must sell out or have some other bad luck. I encourage you to find the most original set of lyrics you can find and you will see what I mean.

I'm sure you also already include "The Drinking Gourd". It's standard grade school fare today but is nonetheless an authentic representation of the times and has a refrain that can be sung at least by, say, 4th graders and above.

One other thing. When I do children's or classroom groups I provide a period-style tambourine and a jawbone with a rib knocker to particular kids. That fascinates them and keeps the them focused on the participation. It can be given to an A.D. kid who might otherwise otherwise be disruptive.

Dan Wykes

http://groups.google.com/group/Albert-Baur?hl=en

[Hank Trent]

Re: Songs for Children

I'm sure you also already include "The Drinking Gourd". It's standard grade school fare today but is nonetheless an authentic representation of the times and has a refrain that can be sung at least by, say, 4th graders and above.

Is that the song "Follow the Drinking Gourd," or another one I don't know? If it's "Follow the Drinking Gourd," I haven't looked it up in primary sources for context, but just judging from the words, it's hard to imagine anyone encouraging children to sing it publically in the period. From the words, I'd picture it more a song that slaves would sing only where slaves (or very clueless white people) were listening. And if it made its way to white children, it seems only suitable in a very pro-abolitionist atmosphere--Oberlin, Boston, etc.

Have I got the wrong song? Could you tell more about the context in which it was sung, in the period?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Danny]

Re: Songs for Children

Hank -

That's a good point. Drinking Gourd, in period setting, would be led by African American slaves, escaped slaves, or African-American Abolishionists in a non-school setting. Perhaps a black soldier would be aware of it and sing it with others of his background, children included. To stretch it, a white Abolishionist (woman or man) might be singing it with black children.

As far as the song itself, you might find the original lyric in the 1867 collection of "Slave Songs of The South" a reprint of which I have ordered through Dover Publications but have not yet read. I'll let you know if it's in there when it comes.

I've been using the common folk version of the music for my string banjo / guitar accompaniment. As I understand it many such field and spiritual songs were sung to different tunes or composed on the fly, without instrumental accompaniment, so the folk tradition source for the music is as good as any at this point. It was at least probably derived from surviving oral sources collected in the 1930's from former slaves or children of slaves.

Perhaps this discussion, not exactly a Campaign focus, should be moved to the civilian side.

- Dan Wykes

[Hank Trent]

Re: Songs for Children

As far as the song itself, you might find the original lyric in the 1867 collection of "Slave Songs of The South" a reprint of which I have ordered through Dover Publications but have not yet read. I'll let you know if it's in there when it comes.

Do you mean the 1867 book Slave Songs of the United States? If so, it's not there, at least not in the text online at http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/allen/allen.html .

As far as I can tell in a quick search, most information on the song is based on information H.B. Parks collected around 1912. A footnote in Beyond the River: The Untold Story of the Heroes of the Underground Railroad By Ann Hagedorn, 2004, at google books says:

Regarding "The Drinking Gourd": I was concerned about whether this song was written after the war and then reputed to be used by slaves to communicate ways to escape, or acutally written before the war and indeed authentic. The answer came from the Smithsonian Institution, where Jeff Place guided my fact-checker Pauline Kochanski to H. B. Parks, "Follow the Drinking Gourd," in J. Frank Dobie, Ed., Follow de Drinkin' Gou'd (Austin: Folklore Society of Texas, 1928), vol. 7, pp. 81-84. From the research that Parks did around 1912, it is very likely that the song was sung by slaves and that a sailor with only one leg, Peg Leg Joe, inspired it. Parks's research certainly strengthens the probability of the song's authenticity, but it must be understood that the only way to be certain would be to find the song in a slave narrative, which I have not yet done.

Parks is quoted directly in Songs of the Civil War By Irwin Silber, Jerry Silverman, 1995:

One of my great-uncles, who was connected with the (underground) railroad movement, remembered that in the records of the Anti-Slavery Society there was a story of a peg-legged sailor, known as Peg Leg Joe, who made a number of trips through the South and induced young Negroes to run away and escape... The main scene of his activities was in the country immediately north of Mobile, and the trail described in the song followed northward to the head waters of the Tombigee River, thence over the divide and down the Tennessee River to the Ohio.

At this point, I see no reason to doubt it was a song sung during or before the Civil War, and if the purpose is to have children sing songs that were sung in the 1860s, it's as good as any other. My only point is that if the goal is to have children sing songs as if they were children in the 1860s--a different goal entirely--it would probably be limited to a narrow group and situation.

Wish I could help more with the general question of what songs were popular with most children in the 1860s, but I just haven't done much research on children, unfortunately. :(

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Emily Burns]

Re: Songs for Children

While the children dearly love "Old King Crow", you are probably correct in saying that it isn't the most appropriate thing for them to be singing. I'll keep looking.

Kind regards,

[Hank Trent]

Re: Songs for Children

While the children dearly love "Old King Crow", you are probably correct in saying that it isn't the most appropriate thing for them to be singing. I'll keep looking,

Wait, are you talking about Old King Crow or Drinking Gourd? Old King Crow is another genre entirely, meant for white people (in blackface) to sing and hear, and I haven't seen any posts discouraging it.

I didn't ask, but I was curious about more information on the popularity of minstrel songs among children. It seems a natural fit, since the songs are quick and funny and clever, with easy choruses, and the racism was inoffensive then. Only possible negative I can think would be if the minstrel stage was considered too low-class, rowdy or "adult" for innocent little children to imitate, but that would only affect families trying to raise their children in a genteel way, and I don't even know if that was true. Anyone have information on how popular minstrel songs were among children?

This is a great topic, because it's stuff we'd all know, even if we didn't have children of our own, because we'd know what the neighbor kids sang.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Tertel]

Re: Songs for Children

Emily,
My daughter sings in her girl's county public school chorus group. This past Christmas concert they sang "Polly Wolly Doodle". I thought it was the greatest thing ever to hear an 1840's tune. The lyrics are just plain silly and fun for children to sing. Her and I do living history at an Hampton Mansion in Towson Md. and will most surely be doing fun, silly songs such as that. Do a search for that tune and you will find plenty of references.
Enjoy,
Tim Ertel
SGLHA

[Danny]

Re: Songs for Children

While the children dearly love "Old King Crow", you are probably correct in saying that it isn't the most appropriate thing for them to be singing. I'll keep looking.

Kind regards,

Emily -

A popular song of the day is a popular song of the day, and the average school age kid -- those not in a cloistered religious association - would hear and be familiar with songs whistled by the local blacksmith, grocer, or seamstress. My understanding is that Minstrels had cleaned up their act by the 1860s, and advertised that fact in newspaper and posters at the time.

If "Old King Crow" can't be used, then niether can "Polly Woddle Doodle" because both were performed in negro dialect on stage - Polly Woddle wasn't yet a children's standard, as can be seen from the Minstrel show broadsides of the time.

Given that I feel you could open it up a bit, just use those songs and skip the dialect -- they are both nonsense songs. Another good one is Camptown Ladies.

- Dan Wykes

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Songs for Children

Don't overlook religious songs--while it's rare to find a bunch of songs writted specifically *for* children mid-century, there are a lot of hymns to choose from that are just fun to sing, and would be familiar to children of that sect.

[amity]

Re: Songs for Children

Sarah also has in her possession Watt's Divine and Moral Songs for Children, which can only be read as poetry as we don't know the tunes.

I would go with Divine and Moral Songs (major Watts fan here!) and just use the tunes out of an appropriate tunebook (hymnal with tunes printed) for your impression. That is what would have been done back then. The tunes and poetry were and are recombined willy nilly. Divine and Moral Songs has all the meters neatly labelled. "C.M." means common meter, and you just find a "C.M." tune to go with it. L.M. means long meter. S.M. means short meter. P.M. means particular meter. Well, all that is not really important, but the point is that is what all those coded initials are for, is to tell you what tunes to use with the song. It is all a code for the number of syllables per line.

You will find some tunes that really seem to match the poetry somehow and go with the words (both in terms of the meaning and also in terms of what syllable the accent falls on) and others that are a less appealing combination. Just experiment. However you sing it becomes your family tradition, and it will be perfectly valid and period appropriate if the tune comes out of a period songbook. If you really want to go into detailed research, note what tune names are mentioned in diaries, etc., in your area and use them. Be sure to learn the harmony parts, they add so much to the song. Hymn singers can carry around hundreds of tunes in their heads ready to sing at the drop of a hat even if they do not have the printed music in front of them.

P.S. check the second website in my signature line for electronic files of old shapenote tunes (if that is what you want), but you do have to download Melody Assistant, which is a free download.

[Danny]

Re: Songs for Children

Searching for accounts of teachers brought to the conquered (by the Union) coast islands early in the war, or accounts of Christian Commission workers generally, might be the next place to look if its secular (rather than popular) music you want to concemtrate on.

Thanks to Hank for several good insights in this thread.

- Dan Wykes

[pambryda]

Re: Songs for Children

Meg DeAngelis (athomeandinthefield@yahoo.com) does a presentation on children's songs during the war and I found the handout at home.

Will post more later, but the ones I immediately noticed were Auld Lang Syne and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star...

Pam Kingsley-Bryda

[pambryda]

Re: Songs for Children

I have Meg DeAngelis' handout entitled "Songs to Sing with Children," which lists the following:

Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star (first publication date 1806)
Gentle Annie (Foster, 1856)
Hard Times Come Again No More (Foster, 1855)
Oh, Suzannah (Foster, 1848)
Old Dog Tray (Foster, 1853)
Amazing Grace (1779)
Home Sweet Home (1827)
Aura Lea (1861)
Wait for the Wagon (Buckley, 1851)
Aiken Drum (1841)
Yankee Doodle (1850s)
Buffalo Gals (1844)
Arkansas Traveler
All Through the Night (1784)
The Minstrel Boy (c. 1800)
Auld Lang Syne (16th c.)
America (aka My Country Tis of Thee) (1832)

Hope this helps, Pam Kingsley-Bryda

[Emily Burns]

Re: Songs for Children

These are exactly the kinds of songs I was looking for. I knew that the poem "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" was available in the early 1800's, but I wasn't sure when it began to be sung. Something that I've always sung to my children as sort of a going to sleep song is "Comin' Thru the Rye". I found an 1852 publishing date on the Levy site for that song. It seems to me that there are hundreds of opportunities to use song to further an impression and I can't wait to get started.

Thanks to all who've commented.

Kind regards,