The Girl I Left Behind Me

[joewhitney]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

In spite of claims that "Girl" dates back to Rev War, F&I or even Elizabethan times, I've never seen any solid documentation dating it any earlier than the turn of the 19th century. Until someone produces such doumentation, it looks like it would not be appropriate for Rev War reenactor musicians, or any earlier period. Fortunately, this is a forum for Civil War musicians.

As for the different versions, aside from B&E's hard version, the version with the GFE run leading in, actually did not exist until very late in the 19th century, although it is universally played at reenactments today. Most versions typically started with a CDE run, and the A part had other differences. However, the postwar version is so musically pleasing and well known today that the odds of modern reenactor musicians ever adopting period versions (other than B&E's) are pretty slim.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md. Line Field Music

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Joe,

I think I know the version you're talking about, but you forgot about these two.

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/nevins/32.shtml

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/hart/hart18sr.shtml

They only differ by one note and both start GFE.

[RJSamp]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

As for the different versions, aside from B&E's hard version, the version with the GFE run leading in, actually did not exist until very late in the 19th century, although it is universally played at reenactments today. However, the postwar version is so musically pleasing and well known today that the odds of modern reenactor musicians ever adopting period versions (other than B&E's) are pretty slim.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md. Line Field Music

Nevins? Hart? Keach? Howe? Come on Joe.....GFE versions abound. and we regularly play the Grafulo version of the Star Spangled Banner on our brass instruments.....don't speak for other's and their choice of adopting period version's other than B&E, that's simply speculation on your part with an East Coast bias. Out here in the Midwest we regularly support our Chicago centric music publishing business....we don't have to send to Boston or New York for the latest Fife tune variants.....that's not Macaroni.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Girl is not in Keach. It's in Howe's. I'll have to check, but I think it might start out with CDE. Joe was probably thinking of the earlier 19th century versions.

Nevertheless, I agree with the idea behind Joe's remark, which I think is this. With all of the resources we have available to us (much more than our ancestors), we should be careful about where we get our tunes. A musician can get a more accurate impression playing tunes that were published, say 1830-1865, rather than versions of tunes from 1780 or 1976. Fifers and drummers should put a little more effort than pulling tunes from a CD or the Company of Fifers and Drummers tunebooks.

I heard the late 18th century version of Yankee Doodle played by a fife and drum corps at a Civil War reenactment recently. But I guess you have to be picky to let things like that bother you. This makes me think about another common practice among reenactor corps, which is the playing a medley of an old and new version of a tune like Welcome Here Again/Old 1812. In this case we're in fact playing a tune from about 1790 and one from 1905. These versions are actually very much the same, but a can't think of a better example right now. But if 1863 is the point of reference, musicians shouldn't be representing music from too far in the past and definitely not any point in the future.

[eric marten]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

It shouldn't be too risky playing tunes from a generation or two before the war. Take , for example, "Welcome Here Again" from the William Littons Fiddle Tunes 1800-1802. A young man learning that fiddle tune from someone, say 10 years or so after that time, would, (since fiddlers are a conservative bunch), still be playing that tune in the 1860's, and others would still be learning it from him.

Eric Marten

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Eric,

How about United States March (1817) / Squirrel Hunters' Q.S. (1905)? Your line of reasoning could be applied to the former, but the latter is from a collection published by CW vets. Variations of both were probably played during the war (by different fifers in different corps), but is it reasonable to assume that they could have been played during the war by the same fifer? The point I'm trying to make is that in 2007 we have access to many tunes spanning hundreds of years, and we have the ability see the evolution of tunes like these and combine them in a nice medley. But aren't we trying to recreate the music of 1861-1865, not 1760-1865? The drummers in the CW had no desire to play old-fashioned 18th century drumbeats; they wanted to play what was at the time, the modern style of drumming. The same is true for fifers, even though fifing changed much less than drumming. Sure, many tunes were played exactly the same in 1780 as in 1860, but for tunes that changed over time, musicians would not be looking for older versions of tunes like Yankee Doodle. They would play the modern version. So if an 1850 version of a tune is available, play that one, not the one from 1750. And it's probably not an accurate representation of 1860's fifing and drumming, no matter how musicially pleasing it may be, to play the old and new versions together in a medley.

[joewhitney]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

"Nevins? Hart? Keach? Howe? Come on Joe.....GFE versions abound."

Where?

"don't speak for other's and their choice of adopting period version's other than B&E, that's simply speculation on your part with an East Coast bias."

Eh? I'm talking about period sources. I don't deal in bias, just facts. Besides, I've been a prime advocate of avoiding B&E versions. Howe's publications were so ubiquitious that I point everyone in that direction.

"that's not Macaroni."

Ohhkay.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md Line Field Music

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Here is the version I most frequently hear being played by reenactor fife and drum corps:

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/gif/company2/f19.shtml

I believe this is the late 19th century version Joe was talking about. Reminds me of the version I hear on the radio when car dealerships have 4th of July sales.

While it may start out GFE, it is not the period version that starts out GFE that is in Hart and Nevins.

Hart:

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/hart/hart18sr.shtml

Nevins:

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/nevins/32.shtml

Many people probably wonder why we are fussing over which version of a tune to play. But with all the resources that are available today, why not play straight from the manuals instead of using post-war versions of tunes and post-war drumbeats?

[joewhitney]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

You're right, Will (and you too R.J.). Hart and Nevins do start GFE. But I was indeed talking about the turn of the century version. Guess I should have spelled out more notes. Such are the limitations of trying to describe melodies with text. Ken Barlow's site sure is handy for communicating on these issues.

Hart's and Nevins' are actually more like B&E's than the simplified later version. It would be interesting to look at any surviving publications of vocal arrangements to see if that might have been the source for the simpler version known today. All of these older, more complicated versions fall under the instrumental "quickstep" grouping, which were often more complicated than the songs they originally came from.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md Line Field Music

[eric marten]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Will:
Always nice talking with you. I think we may have been talking about two different things. I entered the thread late, and maybe didn't realize that it was primarily about fifers and drummers, not fiddlers. I was referring to fiddlers and fiddle tunes. Their characteristics are not always similar. Fiddlers tend to be "conservative" and they revel in preserving the old and "authentic" versions of tunes (such as they learned from their fathers, grandfathers, uncles, and the old tune collections, many of them from the golden age of Scottish fiddle tunes published in the late 18th century). Primarily solitary players, they didn't need to "rehearse" in groups and compare their versions or amalgamate them, being quite content to play the old versions they learned as children. Group playing was the exception, not the rule. Unaccompanied playing was the norm, although the up -and -coming minstrel groups were beginning to have effect. The "string band" sound that many twentieth century people associate with fiddle music was not around yet, not until the twentieth century with the addition of strong guitar and bass accompaniment, and that's when many of the "flat" keys (F, B flat, E flat) disappeared from the repertoire, and were replaced by D , A, G, etc in order to accomodate these instruments) See "sailors hornpipe" ," Hull's Victory," , "Fischers's hornpipe," etc. A ten year old, learning fiddle around , say, 1815, would be quite content and proud to play the "old" versions of his fiddle tunes throughout his adult life , including his fifties, and beyond, in the 1860's . This was quite different from fifers and drummers who needed to play in ensemble with others, and needed to agree on certain versions. William Sidney Mount, of Stony Brook, Long Island, one of the authorities on this genre, in a letter dated February 4, 1841 to his brother Nelson, a Dancing Master then living in Georgia: "Take out your old box and go at it, pell mell. Some parts of the strains you must play softer than others, particularly the Minores, they are beautiful. Play some of the strains in octaves above or below, at leisure. In shifting, slide your fingers up and down. You know what I mean. Let your two first fingers work up in playing the whole sett. In Mathewson style.... " Speaking of another tune, he says, " You can make var. as you play it" This would be somewhat different from a fifer's or drummers approach, especially one playing in a military setting with other musicians.

Eric Marten

[DonH]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

This has probably been stated about a million times. But I think one major reason that Civil War fifers don't always play the more period correct versions is because of the Ancient style of New England, which is a totally different atmosphere than re-enacting. I play with groups from both "worlds" which sometimes can get interesting. You'll find that with any ancient fife and drum corps, how the music sounds is the issue not authenticity, while in hard core re-enacting, authenticity is the issue not the music. One thing common to most musicians is that when they are at the same event, they tend to congregate, jam, and learn from each other, especially if one is better than another. Because the two worlds can often clash (be at the same event), musicians often start picking up on each other's style and go back home trying to replicate and go off what they just learned. So what happens is we get musicians who are "in between" hardcore re-enacting and ancient. They might be playing authentic pieces, but not necessarily authentic versions.

Donald

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

It would be interesting to look at any surviving publications of vocal arrangements to see if that might have been the source for the simpler version known today. All of these older, more complicated versions fall under the instrumental "quickstep" grouping, which were often more complicated than the songs they originally came from.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md Line Field Music

I think that might be a good explanation. For those who know the tune, Jim Along Josie, check out the fife version from Fischer (c.1890), which is identical to the one in Howe's 1851 School for the Fife.

http://www.fifedrum.org/resources/music/tutor/96.shtml

It starts out with the usual chorus, but the B-strain is a complicated version of the verse we know. Many popular tunes of the day were adapted to fife and drum, but without making such modifications, they would be rather plain.

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Eric,

This thread started out about the tune in general and then it took the fife and drum turn. Sorry about that. But fifers and fiddlers have much in common. Just look at March to the Fife, Dance to the Fiddle. If anyone has access to a copy of Bayard's, there is a great quote in there about fifers playing slightly different versions of tunes. A fifer was asked about what effect it had on the music, and his response was something like this. "When you get five or six fifers together, blowing their guts out, with the drums backing 'em up, it doesn't really matter."

Maybe someone can find the exact quote and post it here.

[eric marten]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Will:
You have a pretty good memory. The quote is on page 4 : "when I asked about groups of fifers playing divergent forms of the same tune simultaneously, replied, "well, Sam, when they was all a blowin' their innards out, and the drums backin' 'em up, it wouldn't make that much difference."

Eric Marten

[eric marten]

Re: The Girl I Left Behind Me

Actually, that quote is a good gentle reminder to not take ourselves too seriously. So long as we are playing on historically accurate instruments - which is essential - if an errant note slips into our performance, we needn't have to go to confession for it. Also, mistakes happen, (sometimes we call them "variations"), and they happened 160 years ago as well. See the William Sidney Mount quote above, and his admonishment to his brother to add variations to his fiddle performances.