bodhran

[eric marten]

Does anyone have any evidence of bodhran playing in America during the civil war period? I tried the search function but came up with nothing.

[Old Cremona]

Re: bodhran

I don't think there is much evidence. An ancient instrument that reappeared during the "folk scare" of the 1960's. Best left to the 'streamers.

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: bodhran

As a fan of Irish music and a member of a group reenacting an Irish regiment, I regret to say that the evidence is no. A multitude of websites on the history of Irish music and instruments agree that the bodhran (while it may have some ancient ancestors) is in fact an early 20th Century innovation in Irish music as we know it today. You wouldn't have seen or heard them during the Civil War.

Robert A. Mosher

[eric marten]

Re: bodhran

Carl and Robert: Thanks - thats pretty much what I thought, simply because I haven't seen any documentation of it, but I thought I would throw it out there in case anyone did.

[Danny]

Re: bodhran

...Best left to the 'streamers.

Carl -

What is this -- Junior High School?

"Streamers" is juvenile for "Mainstreamers," a word made-up by the 'elite' to define the 'dull' (the latter only too grateful to be "left" the discards of the former) and an attempt to separate our one hobby into several.

Not appreciating the attitude, and you overplayed your knowledge of a topic once again, but I still enjoy your music.

Dan Wykes

[Charles Heath]

Re: bodhran

Danny,

Welcome to the AC Forum. This isn't Szabo's, nor is it Jr. High School.

The six classifications have not changed in a decade, and " 'streamer," is a perfectly acceptable contraction of "mainstreamer."

Take your long running feud with Carl to PM or email.

[markj]

Re: bodhran

Does anyone have any evidence of bodhran playing in America during the civil war period? I tried the search function but came up with nothing.

Hi Eric,

This topic was discussed several years ago, but the thread has apparently disappeared.

I've reviewed three scholarly journal articles (available on request) regarding the alleged origins of the bodhran. While there is apparently artistic evidence for bodhran-style instruments going as far back as 1837, all signs point to bodhrans not seeing wide use prior to the 1950's--yes, that's right--the 1950's Celtic folk music revival.

Short answer: don't play a bodhran at events unless you've got solid evidence stating otherwise. The bodhran is essentially the musical instrument equivalent of Ashokan Farewell: "Not really Civil War...but an incredible simulation!"

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Old Cremona]

Re: bodhran

Danny,

Welcome to the AC Forum. This isn't Szabo's, nor is it Jr. High School.

The six classifications have not changed in a decade, and " 'streamer," is a perfectly acceptable contraction of "mainstreamer."

Take your long running feud with Carl to PM or email.

I'm sorry "Danny" chose this thread to throw a little hissy fit, because it has value to those striving towards the "hardcore" side of reenacting.

The bodhran is a fine instrument, just as are banjos with plastic strings and heads and Yamaha guitars, etc. etc. I know a couple of bodhran players that I love jamming with. Ditto clawhammer banjo players with high-tension modern instruments. There are many fine musicians at mainstream events, playing music with genuine artistic merit.

Only thing is, these instruments and modern styles are not acceptable at Authentic events, where the musicians specifically attempt to re-create the sound and feel of period music.

It's not an insult to say the bodhran belongs at 'streamer events. That's it's natural home.

[eric marten]

Re: bodhran

Mark J.: I absolutely agree with you. My question was simply, is anyone aware of any evidence. I don't play bodhran, and have no intention of ever using it in a living history event, As living historians, it is our custom to ask these questions from time to time, to see what others may have uncovered, as part of on-going research. I appreciate your response, and a couple of the others, and, who knows, I might ask the same question in a couple of years again. I also disapprove of anyone playing modern-influenced instruments at events, such as fiddles with chin-rests, non-gut strings, artificial tailguts, wound strings (other than the g string), etc, or playing non-period versions of tunes. So, its a fair question to throw out there, to see what other serious historians may have to say about it. I'm somewhat disappointed that a couple of people got to feuding because of it. I seem to remember that one of the rules of the forum was "be nice" Civility is never out of place. Thanks for your response.

[markj]

Re: bodhran

Here are various links showing the c.1833 painting "Snap-Apple Night" by Daniel Maclise (1806-1870). Maclise's inspiration for this work was reportedly a Halloween party he attended in Blarney, Ireland, in 1832.

Not only is a bodhran-style instrument depicted in the painting (this is reportedly the first known artistic evidence for them), but a corkscrew as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maclise.snap.apple.night.jpg

http://www.bullworks.net/virtual/artgallery/pkr.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Maclise (Biographical details)

In addition to the dancers, the kids on the left side are playing various divination games, while the ones on the right are bobbing for apples. A couple in the center are playing "Snap-Apple", which involves retrieving an apple hanging from a string.

Check it out,

Mark Jaeger

[FlatLandFed]

Re: bodhran

That's very interesting and certainly hints that such an instrument's use in Europe was possible on our side of the pond if probably not exactly PEC during our Civil War years.

Guess we're back to looking for documentation (which of course Mark is a champ) that the bodhran was part of the American music scene, too.

IMHO, if we begin allowing materiel and customs into our living history representations because they are of the correct time period without being able to absolutely pinpoint their use, we head toward that famous slippery slope toward mediocrity.

Hmmm -- would this be ok, too? http://www.sitarsetc.com/articles/th...the-sitar.html
:tounge_sm

Regards,
Paul Hadley
Play It Again Sam Watkins Minstrels

[Old Cremona]

Re: bodhran

IMHO, if we begin allowing materiel and customs into our living history representations because they are of the correct time period without being able to absolutely pinpoint their use, we head toward that famous slippery slope toward mediocrity.

Regards,
Paul Hadley
Play It Again Sam Watkins Minstrels

Hey Paul, long time no see.

This is a great phrase you came up with here, I may have to steal it:wink_smil

[FlatLandFed]

Re: bodhran

Howdy, friend,
No charge for use of a newly minted quotation ta la!
Perhaps our paths will cross at Marmaduke's Raid or (koff koff) an event near the village of Westport in the upcoming months. Looking forward to being entertained by your banjo prowess.
Cheers,
Paul Hadley

[Danny]

Re: bodhran

Danny, Welcome to the AC Forum. This isn't Szabo's, nor is it Jr. High School ...etc. etc.

Charles -

Please then remove the offensive posts.

- Dan Wykes

[Ole Bull]

Re: bodhran

The bodhran was played here during the Civil War, so to speak. They just didn't call it that. It was a tambourine. In fact, I would propose that 19th Century popular American music was a source that re-emerged to influence the "Irish Folk Music Scare."

There are many depictions of the mid-19th century Tambo which was widely used, along with bones, to accompany banjos and fiddles. The similarity to the modern bodhran is striking (pun intended) - they were about 12 inches or greater and nearly always shown as held in the same playing position as the bohdran is now played- vertical, with the striking hand attacking the head.

The banjo was introduced to Ireland (and throughout Great Britain) by Joe Sweeney and the Virginia Minstrels in 1843. It was accompanied by the fiddle, bones and tambourine (played in this period fashion). As elsewhere, the music caused a sensation. There was some degree of integration of the banjo among Irish musicians by the turn of the century.

As stated above, the modern incarnation of the bodhran came about 1960. Those involved have attested that previous to that time it had been referred to as a tambourine, that some musicians did not like the sound of the jingles and put tape to them, and also that home-made rural examples had no jingles.

At that same time Irish-style traditional music identified itself with the combination of Banjo, Bones, Tambourine and fiddles. Is it more than coincident that this is the same ensemble of American minstrels of '43? Is this not the common root? Has no one else noted such a connection? Is it not more plausible to propose the American Minstrels' Bones and Tambourine as the predecessors of the Bodhran rather than "ancient war drums" and "Egyptian clackers"?