What's wrong with this picture?

[Danny]

The attached picture is of a fairly well known "period" band of the sort too familiar at Community living Histories and Mainstream reenactments. The name of the band is blocked out - my intent is not to embarass them.

What I see is a 1920's pattern "Proffit" style Appalachian folk banjo, a Martin post-1900s 000 size folk guitar being strummed, a 1960s Bob Dillon style harmonica clamp, a twentieth century style Bodran, a modern smallish open tamborine played by a woman... All is ok except that this group claims to be a Civil War battlefield band - in person, on their CDs, at their web site.

I am heartened by the interest, facts, and performances shown on the AC in regard period music, to counteract such Mainstream performances. As with gear and impressions, my hope is that the higher standard AC approach to period music will slowly leak out to improve mainstream performances as well. (The National Park battlefield site managers and curators should in particular become more aware of this aspect as they hire musicians for their public events).

I am only a halfway period performer myself, my fellow musicians aren't motivated and I have to play to their modern tunings and instruments. But I am trying to at least appear correctly, from ten feet or so. Next step is to allow a closer look and keep practicing from original sheet music and tutors.

Anybody else struggling with this?

- Dan Wykes

[Pappy]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

I hear you man. I'm trying to decide if I should make a cigar box fiddle or give up and just go with my modern one (ie: chin rest, shoulder rest, low budget bow). It's a tough decision, but I would like to have the public see what a instrument from the 19th century looked like, me included. With the group I'm in, correct instruments really can't be argued about because we usually don't play when the public is around, only after they leave. We play for the reenactors and ourselves. It's the way we unwind after a busy day of battling and being in 3rd person.

My 2cents.

Greg Papierz

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

What's wrong with this picture?

...everything.

[Hank Trent]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Danny,

Imagine how tough it is for poor folks like me, who'll never have the talent to sing or play an instrument, yet still want to have a mental picture of what 19th century music should have (or should be) sounding like!

I've learned not to trust that what I'm hearing from any random group at a reenactment is, indeed, what I would have heard in the past. But it's hard, without much innate musical ability, to learn to separate the differences and be able to appreciate the joy of thinking, "That's just the way it was," or, "Ignore this and that, and imagine it like this, and it would be just the way it was."

With the group I'm in, correct instruments really can't be argued about because we usually don't play when the public is around, only after they leave. We play for the reenactors and ourselves.

That brings up an irony that I never could understand. At many events and among many groups, there's an underlying assumption that the public deserves a better historic experience than one's fellow reenactors, even though the public puts in far less time and effort to attend.

While many reenactors are indeed glad to get away from authenticity as soon as the public leaves, there are others who still appreciate when things are done right, whether the public's there or not.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Danny]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

I hear you man. I'm trying to decide if I should make a cigar box fiddle or give up and just go with my modern one... Greg Papierz

Greg -

Fiddles in the 19th century, as I understand it (and I'm no fiddler), looked almost identical to fiddles used today -- remove the chin rest, put gut or silk/wound strings on, and hold it and play it off the shoulder as they would have back then. Fiddlers here can let you know if that's all you'd need to 'fix' your modern fiddle to CW standard. I do know that you certainly don't need a cigar-box fiddle to be authentic, but I'd sure like to see and hear one played. Going to Perryville?

- Dan Wykes

[Old Cremona]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

I've met that banjo player. He plays real documented minstrel banjo music, and also has a Wunderlich banjo. The lady playing tambourine is his wife. They're both 2 of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. I've never seen them on the AC, and I doubt they care what "Dan'l" Wykes thinks of their music or anything else.

Perhaps we should critique this bunch of civil war musicians, and see if we can find anything wrong.

[Southernlady1862]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Speaking of fiddles, look around antique shops. You just might come across one that may have witnessed the civil war.....
I have a fiddle and it's wooden case that my mother bought me at a yardsale... I knew I had seen others identical to it at Relic shows... We found out later that it's a stradivarius copy sold by Sears Roebuck (with the case) sometime between 1840 and 1870. So, it may have very well seen the civil war. It also has the best sound of any fiddle i've heard. However, it has a chin rest which was put on it around 1900... which I'd hate to remove, therefore it's also a "Campfire" instrument,

On the inside there is a piece of paper stating "Repaired, J.L.TODD, Canton Ohio. 1912. A FINE FIDDLE"
Which I found very interesting, because in 2006 I had it repaired in Canton Georgia.

[Old Cremona]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

The banjo player in that picture I posted is, of course, our "Danny," who started this thread by showing us a group of reenactors with instruments that obviously involve several anacronisms. Now, you will note that the group in Danny's picture has at least one anacronism going on (the modern banjo), and several other things that don't even qualify as an anacronism (blue plastic coolers, aluminum cans of great tasting, less filling Miller Lite, and some sort of take-off on a Fisher-Price Xylophone).

It strikes me as stunningly hypocritical that Danny would publicly judge others for what he himself does. 10-foot rule? Perhaps he will protest that he's trying to improve. That may or may not be true, but might it not be true for the folks Danny would judge?

There's a place for posting pictures and critiquing the participants. It's called the "OTB."

[amity]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

It seems that reenactors themselves sometimes reinforce the problems with authenticity issues you musicians are up against, because we don't want to dance to just "one lone fiddle." We want some production values, etc.

My first experience with this was at a "ball" supposed to be held in 1836 San Antonio (a rather unlikely prospect right from the git-go.) Discussed music with the organizers, who wanted to hire a certain old-time band replete with standing bass, hammered dulcimer, two fiddles, don't remember what all. They wanted something that would be "fun to dance to" for the modern people we really were, because they were afraid the dancing would be sparse without a big sound to get toes to tapping.

At any rate, it was fun, we did dance, it just wasn't authentic.

[Rmhisteach]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Pards and comrades,

I know the leader of this group. He is an old friend. He introduces many people to Civil music and does so in a very energetic and and humorus way. I feel that every one is at a different point of their respective impressions. I do not think we should make a practice of posting pics and taking pot shots at those pictured. Some of us have been doing this for a long time and have seen some pretty bad impressions progress toward authentic. I am sure ol' Jubilo will pipe up and have a comment he is on the forum periodically.

Rod Miller

[Michael Comer]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Some of us have been doing this for a long time and have seen some pretty bad impressions progress toward authentic.

And... some of us have had pretty bad impressions as we progressed toward becoming more authentic.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Zimmy's name is spelled Dylan not Dillon!!!

[Hank Trent]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

We found out later that it's a stradivarius copy sold by Sears Roebuck (with the case) sometime between 1840 and 1870.

Not possible. Sears himself was only seven years old in 1870 and Roebuck was six. The company didn't begin until the 1880s, and started its real mail order business in the 1890s.

So the violin is either 1840-1870, or was initially sold by Sears Roebuck, but not both.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

Since when do we critique mainstream pictures on this forum?

[Rmhisteach]

Re: What's wrong with this picture?

And... some of us have had pretty bad impressions as we progressed toward becoming more authentic.

Thats true too. RM