Lt. Cross' fiddle

[Danny]

Attached are photos of the fiddle carried on campaign by Lt. J.A. Cross 2ND REGT. N.Y.V.

"Incised on top, lower bass bout, in heart: MARY / 1862. Incised on top, upper treble bout: six five-pointed stars. Incised on top, upper bass bout: seven five-pointed stars. .. Tailpiece: ebony; inlaid mother-of-pearl shield etched with black-painted dot enclosed in a ring; inlaid mother-of-pearl eye at lower end;.. This violin belonged to James A. Cross, who fought for the Union in the Civil War, enlisting in the 2nd Regiment New York Volunteers at Troy, New York, in the spring of 1861. Cross was First Lieutenant from May 14, 1861, through July 29, 1862, and was later promoted to Captain. He decorated the violin with his name, that of his wife, his regiment, and thirteen stars."

The fiddle is in the Canning Collection at the National Music Museum at University of South Dakota http://www.usd.edu/smm/CivilWarViolin.html

James S. Canning was himself a banjo player who learned from the notable CW Veteran and Minstrel banjoist Albert Baur.

- Dan Wykes

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Hello Mr. Wykes,
Thanks for posting the pictures. I just put "fiddle" in the search and found your post, which I missed at the time you put it on.

Do you know if that tailpiece is original to the instrument? It is very hard to identify Civil War era fittings, so every time I find something that can be identified it's a boon (I saw a picture of an identified tailpiece that said "The Union forever" on it once). Evidently Cross's fiddle continued to be used for quite some time after the war, as it has gear tuners which I know are not from the era.

It would be neat to make a fiddle with period methods, and decorate it similarly! That will be another project to consider after some of my other Civil War recreations are completed.

Beautiful pictures!

Nathan Dodds

[Danny]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

...Evidently Cross's fiddle continued to be used for quite some time after the war, as it has gear tuners which I know are not from the era...Nathan Dodds

Nathan -

From my research geared tuners were in use for stringed instruments, even violins, through antebellum and CW times - commonly for guitars, less commonly for banjos, perhaps even less commonly for violins but they were available at that time.

Apparently a clue to an authentic early gear set is the fact that the round gears are on the top side of the worm gears, as with this fiddle and Martin guitars of the period, rather than the opposite arrangement on more modern, post-war gear sets.

But I'd like to find something more definitive on that if you have a source to share.

Dan Wykes

[David Swarens]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Hello.

A lovely fiddle, with great decorations!
Thanks for posting the images.

As for patent machines for stringed instruments they are, as you say, quite early, and are common on guitars early in the century, and show up on some banjos by not much after the middle of the century, although I do not know when the ones for violins show up.

But using the position of the gear and worm to date tuners or instruments is not, however, reliable, especially as regards relationship before or after the period of the ACW.

It was by far the most common to find this arraingement throughout the 19th century, and into the first decades of the 20th century.

I have felt that it was a combination of two factors, which occur at the end of this same time period, that were responsible for the change.

First, the switch to common use of steel strings, as in the newer style of tuners the pressure of the strings pulls the two parts into engagement, rather than apart, and this became more important with the higher tension of steel strings compared to that of gut.

And second, the switch away from German manuacture during the disruption in supply caused by the first World War. A large number of machines were European, especially German.

Those are just guesses on my part, but the gear below the worm starts to mostly disapear in the 1920's (Lloyd Loar Gibson Mandolins still used these in the early 20's, and the reproductions made for this type of instrument are the only modern "reverse gear," as they are now known, machines that seem to be currently available.)

So (some) instruments with machines of that sort could be anytime from the 1820s through the 1920's, quite a ways on both sides of the ACW.

Best wishes for instruments in tune!
Yours,
David Swarens

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Nathan -

From my research geared tuners were in use for stringed instruments, even violins, through antebellum and CW times - commonly for guitars, less commonly for banjos, perhaps even less commonly for violins but they were available at that time.

Mr. Wykes ,

It's possible that gear tuners were used at the time for violins, but I suspect that they were like chin rests, they existed, but use of them was probably somewhere near the 1% level(or lower). I have spent many hours looking at photographs, paintings, and drawings of fiddlers and violinists from the 1840's to 1860's, and have never seen even one picture having a violin with gear tuners in it.


Gear tuners seem to start showing up in pictures in the late 1800's and early 1900's. They became readily available in the Sears catalogs at that time (Metal strings are also shown in an 1895 sears catalog I have, they could have made gear tuners more popular in the late 1800's). I have examined many gear tuners, and they usually use materials on the tuner head that were not in use during the Civil War era to my knowledge.


So, that is why I believe them to be post war. I would be interested to find out what date the earliest gear tuners could actually be documented to.

Nathan Dodds

[eric marten]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Nathan:
I agree with you. I, too, have spent years researching period instruments:
having examined also, hundreds and hundreds of drawings, diagrams, paintings, and photographs of violins, and have not come across any evidence of machine heads/ gear tuners for violins until close to the twentieth century.
The most authoritative and extensive work on nineteenth century violin making, entitled VIOLIN MAKING: AS IT WAS AND IS, BEING A HISTORICAL, THEORETICAL, AND PRACTICAL TREATISE ON THE SCIENCE AND ART OF VIOLIN-MAKING FOR THE USE OF VIOLIN MAKERS AND PLAYERS, AMATEUR AND PROFESSIONAL, by Ed Heron-Allen 1885, Ward Lock Limited, London -366 pages, briefly mentions a patent obtained in 1876 on such a peg box set-up, (with a bit of disdain, as being entirely unnecessary.) After seeing the above mentioned photo, I was almost afraid that many re-enactors/living historians would run out and have their violins altered based on that photo. I always feel that it is the norm that should be portrayed, even if one could come up with a single example of the out of the norm specimen. Incidentally, this very thorough book, has every possible detail anyone would want to know about violins in the nineteenth century, including 12 pages on the manufacture of gut strings.

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

The most authoritative and extensive work on nineteenth century violin making, entitled VIOLIN MAKING: AS IT WAS AND IS, BEING A HISTORICAL, THEORETICAL, AND PRACTICAL TREATISE ON THE SCIENCE AND ART OF VIOLIN-MAKING FOR THE USE OF VIOLIN MAKERS AND PLAYERS, AMATEUR AND PROFESSIONAL, by Ed Heron-Allen 1885, Ward Lock Limited, London -366 pages, briefly mentions a patent obtained in 1876 on such a peg box set-up, (with a bit of disdain, as being entirely unnecessary.)

Hello Mr. Marten,
It's interesting that the gear tuners were mentioned with such disdain in the book you have. I have heard many good fiddle players say, that they make a fiddle not sound as good, besides destroying the value of the instrument(and wrecking the peg head).

Incidentally, this very thorough book, has every possible detail anyone would want to know about violins in the nineteenth century, including 12 pages on the manufacture of gut strings.

By the way, thanks for sharing the name of the book. Resources like the book you mentioned are invaluable to my research. I have a book about violin repair published in 1895 (I think the last name of the author is Foucher) and I'm rather relived that the book you mentioned is so easy to find(since it's being reprinted) and, compared to my repair book not terribly expensive.

Nathan Dodds

[Southernlady1862]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Wow! What a beautiful piece of history! Thank you so much for sharing that with us!

[Danny]

Mr. Swarens, Mr. Dodds, Mr. Marten -

re: metal tuners on war time fiddles, I contacted one of the foremost collectors and experts on American-made violins in the country, none other than the famed multi-instrumentalist David Bromberg (In case you ever wondered what became of him, by choice he changed his career path and has run a vintage instrument business for years, although he has made some nitch CD's since he quit his travelling musician days).

His reply to us:

Mr. Wykes,

Thank you for the E-mail. I’ve never paid attention to mechanical pegs before. I have a gold-plated set that I took from a 19th century French violin made by an important maker, so I know that mechanical pegs were available by the last quarter of the 19th century. I’m pretty sure that mechanical pegs on basses go back to the 18th century, certainly they were used in America on basses in the early 19th century, so I think that it’s possible that the violin in question was originally made with mechanical pegs. Whether the pegs that are on it now are, in fact, original would be, for me speculation, but I don’t think it improbable.

Does the violin in the image that you sent to me have a label or internal inscription? Your E-mail arrived as I was speaking to someone who had sent me a photo of a violin that had its varnish, and possibly its label destroyed in a flood. A pencil inscription remained in the inside of the back at the center of the upper bout, which said: Westminster Ohio 1812. The FF holes on this violin and the one in the image that you sent to me are eerily similar. I would love to see more photos, and know if there are any identification markings in your fiddle...

David Bromberg

I sent him the museum link so he can follow-up his own interest in that instrument.

Cool, huh!

Dan Wykes

[Danny]

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[Cogden3]

Re: Lt. Cross' fiddle

Awesome piece of history thanks for sharing it with us!!


Chuck Ogden