Burnside's Men

[lukegilly13]

I have been asked to portray a Sgt. Major for Gen. Burnside (1862 Eastern) in the near future. I really want to do well with the impression. I was looking through original photos and I came across this one. Alright, is it possible to tell the rank of these men and does anyone know who the are? If it is possible to determine their rank, how? I can find several images of Burnside and his staff but since they basically all have shoulder boards on frocks I am unable to determine who's who. Also, is the guy on the right int his image wearing an overshirt? Any help here for this impression would be greatly appreciated!


Here's a group image of his staff....is it possible to determine the rank of these men?

[Co. B Rhode Island]

Re: Burnside's Men

The guy on the right is wearing the RI Militia style overshirt and I think the gray trousers. These uniforms were used by the 1st RI Vols (90 Day unit) and the 2nd RI Vols (3 Yr unit). Based on info in EH Rodes book, the uniforms were replaced by federal frocks in Oct/Nov time frame. Other RI early war units were also equiped with the uniform.

A quick note the the RI blouse, also called the Burnside blouse. The man on the right has a pocket on the left breast, but the norm for the blouse is the pocket on the right side. I do not believe the image is reversed because as best as I can tell the other coats open correctly.

Ed Davenport
Co. B 2 RIV

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Burnside's Men

Luke,
First of all, what do you mean by 1862 eastern? Do you mean when Burnside was in NC in the Spring in command of a corps or when he was in command of the AoTP in the Fall and Winter?

Second, the staff photos you are looking at are of corps and army level staff officers. Sgt. Maj.'s were on regimental staff, so I would suggest finding regiments in Burnsides' command and looking at their regimental staff's.

Just My $.02,

[bAcK88]

Re: Burnside's Men

Also, is the guy on the right int his image wearing an overshirt?

That overshirt looks like the "blouse" that the state of Rhode Island issued to her boys in 61. From the primary sources that I've read, the Rhode Island blouse was worn only until the fall of 1861, when they were replaced with frock coats.

BB

[surveypunk]

Re: Burnside's Men

Sir,
I would suggest securing a copy of "Letters to the Home Circle...The North Carolina Service of Pvt. Henry A. Clapp" ISBN 0-86526-270-5
Clapp spent most of his service in New Bern. There are numerous pencil drawings of camp and campaign life and also some good maps of New Bern and the theater of Eastern NC. He was, mostly, a rear echelon pogue but his writing gives a good history of goings on with Burnsides troops in this area. His take on "Contrabands" and how they were dealt with is interesting, to say the least.
I consider it a Must Read for students of this theater of operations.

Huzza!
Jim Baugh
Ordnance Sgt. Staff
Carolina Legion
Blounts Creek, NC

[lukegilly13]

Re: Burnside's Men

Luke,
First of all, what do you mean by 1862 eastern?
Second, the staff photos you are looking at are of corps and army level staff officers.

Andrew, thanks for the reply. The reason I posted it as 1862 eastern is because it cannot be any more specific than that. We are not portraying Burnside in a battle, a specific day, or even a specific campaign. We were simply asked to portray the person. The guy portraying Burnside has done it for years and I have to say...he is very good with the character of Burnside himself. I wish I could say that they wanted a specific day and time but they did not...just Burnside in '62. We are just going to portray them as accurately as possible.
Yeah, I realized that there were no Sgt. Majors in those images....I was hoping to determine a way to recognize rank when stripes cannot be seen....or even better, uncovering someone who has Regimental images including Burnside or knows where to find them.

[yeoman]

Re: Burnside's Men

Sir, this may not be what you are looking for but I hope it helps. A few passages from "Civil War Collector's Encyclopedia" by Francis A. Lord and other sources, if I may. Major General, two rows of buttons on the breast, nine in each row, placed by threes; Brigadier General is the same as a major general except eight buttons in each row placed in pairs; Colonel will have two rows of seven each spaced at equal distances; Lieutenant Colonel same as colonel; Major same as colonel; Captain will have single row of nine buttons placed at equal distances; First Lieutenant, second lieutenant and brevet second lieutenant same as captain. Shoulder straps according to branch of service, length is four inches- width is one and three eighths inch- width of gold embroidery is one quater inch. For General staff officers rank on dark blue cloth; Infantry officers on saxony blue cloth; Artillery officers on scarlet cloth; Rifle officers green cloth; Cavalry officers yellow cloth and Dragoon officers orange cloth. Major-General Commanding the Army, the shoulder strap shall have three silver-embroidery stars of five rays, one in center is largest with one on each side. Major General, same as above except with two stars, the center of each star is one inch from outer edge; Brigadier General, one star in center of strap; Colonel, same as above in size and border with silver-embroidered spread eagle; Lieutenant colonel, silver-embroidered leaf at each end of strap; Major is a gold embroidered leaf at each end of strap; Captain is as above omitting gold leaf and substituting at each end two gold-embroidered bars of the same width as border, placed parallel to the ends of strap; First lieutenant is one gold bar at each end with second and brevet lieutenants having simply branch of service color cloth straps as above. To indicate rank while wearing overcoat, or "cloak coat" of dark blue, on both sleeves at lower edge a knot of flat black silk one eighth inch in width and composed as follows: General: five braids,double knot, Colonel: five braids, single knot, Lt. Colonel: four braids, single knot, Major: three braids, single knot, Captain: two braids single knot and First Lieutenant one braid with single knot. Trousers of General officers and officers of the Odnance dept. should be dark blue without stripe, welt or cord down outer seam. Officers of General Staff And Staff Corps should wear dark blue cloth with a gold cord one eighth inch diameter along outer seam. Regimental Officers should wear dark blue cloth with a welt let into outer seam one eighth inch dia. of colors corresponding to branch of service. Here is a link with an image of Colonel Ambrose Burnside and officers of the First Rhode Island Infantry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose_Burnside Once again hope this helps. ( Army Regulations 1861, sections 1442-1635. ) P.S. if the link does not work, I found it by googleing Colonel Ambrose Burnside, then to Wikipedia, thanks again. P.P.S. this link may also be helpful http://howardlanham.tripod.com/unireg.htm

[lukegilly13]

Re: Burnside's Men

Mel,
Thanks! This helps a great deal. Now, at least, I can begin to label some of these men and begin to get a good mental image anyway. This is very helpful! The image you sent actually has a man in it with Sgt. Major stripes.

Does anyone know how I could go about finding out this guy's name....the picture is titled "Officers of the 1st Rhode Island Volunteers Camp
Spragues (sp?) 1861." Shouldn't there be some records of these fellows that I could access?

[lukegilly13]

Re: Burnside's Men

Want to bump this thread back to the top because I created during AHT. Does anyone have or know where I can find the enlistment/service records of these 1st Rhode Island Vol...I'd like to find out who this guy is (2nd from left) and what his background is.

Thanks to the LOC for the image

[Dignann]

Re: Burnside's Men

The National Archives is where you are going to find service records. According to the Civil War Soldiers & Sailors System, the 1st Rhode Island Infantry had two Sergeant Majors during its period of service - John P. Shaw and John S. Engs.

Good luck!

Eric

[lukegilly13]

Re: Burnside's Men

Thanks Eric! I guess I'll never know which one is pictured (or they may both be there and not revealing rank). However, I guess it will be twice the fun as I can look up info on both. See you at ATB.

[Dignann]

Re: Burnside's Men

Not unless you can figure out the exact date of the photo.


From the roster of the 1st Regiment Rhode Island Detached Militia:

Engs, John S., Sgt. Maj.; Res., Newport, R.I.; April 17, 1861, enrolled; May 2, 1861, mustered-in; June 8, 1861, promoted from Priv. in Co. F; Aug. 2, 1861, mustered out.

Shaw, John P., Sgt. Maj.; Res., Providence, R.I.; April 17, 1861, enrolled; May 2, 1861, mustered-in; June 6, 1861, transferred to 2d Regt. R.I. Vols.

-- Brigadier General Elisha Dyer. Annual Report of the Adjutant General of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, for the Year 1865 (Providence: E.L. Freeman & Son, 1893) pp. 28 and 53


From the 2nd Rhode Island regimental history:

Captain John P. Shaw, son of General James Shaw, was born in Providence, January 3, 1834. He was instructed in the common schools of Providence, and became by occupation a jeweler. He was married, September 13th, 1854, to Amanda O., daughter of William P. Brightman. At the outset of the rebellion he joined the First Rhode Island, as sergeant major, and, on the formation of the Second, was appointed second lieutenant of Company F. He was successively promoted to first lieutenant, July 22nd, 1861, and captain, July 24th, 1862, of Company K. He was particularly efficient as a drill and recruiting officer, and, while as lieutenant, during the absence of his captain, he received, in special orders, the congratulations and commendation of Colonel Wheaton, for the "entire success with which he had performed the duties of a higher grade." In battle he was known as a brave and gallant officer, and was selected more than once to perform services of a peculiarly difficult kind. He fell in the bloody battle before Spottsylvania Court House, May 12th, 1864. The generous words of Colonel Edwards, in his farewell order to the Second, on the departure of the Regiment from Cold Harbor, have already been given. In a private letter to General Shaw the colonel rendered an additional testimony of his regard: "Captain Shaw died fighting so bravely, was so conspicuous among the bravest, that I could not help noticing him particularly. I and all that knew him are fellow mourners."

--Augustus Woodbury. The Second Rhode Island Regiment (Providence: Valpey, Angell and Company, 1875) pp. 376-377


Eric