93rd NY, Co. E

[BrandonEnglish]

I did a search and couldn't find any discussion on Co. E of the 93rd NY in Bealton, VA. Of course we all know the images, but I went in closer and noticed 3-4 of the soldier have "hat brass" anywhere but their hat, but on their coats. Can anyone shed some light on this? It just struck me as odd. Thanks!

[Marc]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I have never noticed anything like that in pictures over the years. Very interesting and I am awaiting the responses from the better informed.

[shubal]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Pretty cool.
When was this image taken?
Got a source credit?

[BobbyHughes]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

That's probably the most unusual thing I've ever seen. Great pics

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Hi,

Great photo!!! The flag is really cool!

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Hi,

In picture 3, it looks like the guy is wearing a "field modified" sack coat. Look how the sleeve goes in like a standard issue sack coat.

[Arch Campbell]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I have seen maybe half a dozen company letters on coats in images over the years.

The regimental numbers, though, are new to me. Great image!

[BrandonEnglish]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I am not sure of the date, it is in Bealton, VA it is a series of company shots of the 93rd NY. If I had to take a stab at it I would say 63-64. There are shots of all the companies, and there are some really interesting uniforms. I have attached Company F. Notice the guy 6th from the right, directly under the flag looks to be a big time "old timer" and the guy resting his shoulders on his 2 pards all look to be extremely young, a very interesting contrast.

Also notice the gent 4th from the right standing up, anyone have any idea what that coat is? It seems way to long for a sack coat. I've added a picture of him. I have this whole series of most of the companies if anyone is interested in seeing them, send me a PM.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Hi,

It looks like some sort of private purchase sack coat. EOG has a coat that looks very close to how this coat looks.

[RN_PAC]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Very interesting; nice catch. I have seen those images for years (albeit not in high res) and never noticed that.

There are images of zouaves from the 165th NY ("2nd Battalion Duryee's Zouaves") with individuals wearing what could be described as "hat brass" (usually the numeral "5th" in homage to the original regiment) on thier shirt-vests or jackets; I always attributed that as an idiosyncracsy related to the wearing of fez-caps often covered by a turban. Looks like it is not a zouave specific phenomenon after all...

[Danny]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

...noticed 3-4 of the soldier have "hat brass" anywhere but their hat, but on their coats. Can anyone shed some light on this? It just struck me as odd. Thanks!

Brandon -

It's my undertanding that "hat brass" was only ever officially intended for the dress uniform shakos, the taller, stiffer hat issued to new regiments. That being the case, recruits would transfer the pins from that relativley useless hat to their everyday kepis or even forage caps or slouch hats. With no officially-designated spot or position for them, this brass would end up in whatever spot the particular fad was for any given unit.

This is born out by observing use of hat brass in other CW field images and studio portraits. In this case the brass appears to have missed the headgear all together.

This is another example of a concept hinted at before on this forum generally, that "for every accurate impression there will be an equal but opposite accurate impression."

Dan Wykes

[markj]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I am not sure of the date, it is in Bealton, VA it is a series of company shots of the 93rd NY. If I had to take a stab at it I would say 63-64. There are shots of all the companies, and there are some really interesting uniforms. I have attached Company F. Notice the guy 6th from the right, directly under the flag looks to be a big time "old timer" and the guy resting his shoulders on his 2 pards all look to be extremely young, a very interesting contrast.

Also notice the gent 4th from the right standing up, anyone have any idea what that coat is? It seems way to long for a sack coat. I've added a picture of him. I have this whole series of most of the companies if anyone is interested in seeing them, send me a PM.

All of the 93rd NYVI images were likely taken on the same day in August 1863 while the regiment was still on HQ and provost guard duty (it remained in this assignment until April 1864). In the well-known images showing 93rd NYVI field musicians as well as the regimental staff, you'll note there is an identical large flag draped over some poles in the background. The position of the flag is identical in both images, which indicates they were made within a short time of each other.

You can see several ID'd studio portraits of 93rd NYVI officers here--they can be easily picked out in the field photos:

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/queryresults.exe?CISOROOT=/portraits&CISOFIELD1=descri&CISOBOX1=93rd&CISORESTMP=&CISOVIEWTMP=

Some years ago, while perusing the image of Company G, 93rd NYVI, I was able to ID the 2nd Lieutenant in it based on a studio photo that I discovered elsewhere on the Web. I'm sorry, but I can't immediately remember his name now (he's the hatless officer in the right foreground without visible rank insignia). I'm sorry to say the young man was, as memory serves, KIA around Spotsylvania C. H. in May 1864.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I am not sure of the date, it is in Bealton, VA it is a series of company shots of the 93rd NY. If I had to take a stab at it I would say 63-64. There are shots of all the companies, and there are some really interesting uniforms. I have attached Company F. Notice the guy 6th from the right, directly under the flag looks to be a big time "old timer" and the guy resting his shoulders on his 2 pards all look to be extremely young, a very interesting contrast.

Also notice the gent 4th from the right standing up, anyone have any idea what that coat is? It seems way to long for a sack coat. I've added a picture of him. I have this whole series of most of the companies if anyone is interested in seeing them, send me a PM.

All of the 93rd NYVI images were likely taken on the same day in August 1863 while the regiment was still on HQ and provost guard duty (it remained in this assignment until April 1864). In the well-known images showing 93rd NYVI field musicians as well as the regimental staff, you'll note there is an identical large flag draped over some poles in the background. The position of the flag is identical in both images, which indicates they were made within a short time of each other.

You can see several ID'd studio portraits of 93rd NYVI officers here--they can be easily picked out in the field photos:

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/queryresults.exe?CISOROOT=/portraits&CISOFIELD1=descri&CISOBOX1=93rd&CISORESTMP=&CISOVIEWTMP=

Some years ago, while perusing the image of Company G, 93rd NYVI, I was able to ID the 2nd Lieutenant in it based on a studio photo that I discovered elsewhere on the Web. As I recall, his name was Norman F. Eldridge (he's the hatless officer in the right foreground without visible rank insignia). I'm sorry to say the young man was KIA in the Wilderness.

Another sad story is Captain John Bailey, Company F, also KIA in the Wilderness. See attachment below.

Four officers of the 93rd NYVI were reported KIA or MW in the Wilderness fighting from 5 - 7 May 1864:

Captain Dennis E. Barnes
Captain John Bailey
Lieutenanant Norman F. Eldridge
Lieutenant Robert L. Gray

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[fedcampaigner]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

I also noticed that most are wearing sack coats but a few are wearing frock coats. I would think everyone in the company would have been issued similar coats. Does anyone know why there would be a difference?

[BrandonEnglish]

Re: 93rd NY, Co. E

Mark and Dan,

Thanks for the information, I was curious as to when the picture was taken, good thing to know.

As for the 'brass" I have discovered that in the other compnay shots A-F companies there are plenty of other guys that did this, mostly just the company letter and not the "93."