Company C, 41st New York Infantry

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

The title of the Picture is "Company C, 41st New York at Manassas, Virgnia July, 1862". There are lots of interestings things about this photo, such as the following:

1. Several of the men appear to be wearing 2 pistol or some other sort of small cartridge boxes.

2. The soldier siting down directly behind the the captain, that is standing up, is holding a little dog.

3. The soldier next to the gentleman holding the dog, has removed the bill from his kepi.

4. The mixture of jackets; while most of the men are wearing New York shell jackets, there are some men wearing frock coats and sack coats.

5. Both the first sergeant, in the front, and the Bugler, in the back row on the wall, are wearing swords.

6. All of the men are wearing dark blue trousers, with exception to the officer holding the bottle in the front row.


I wonder if the photographer miss labeled the picture. Becasue what it looks like to me is that there is a mixture of infantry and cavalry in the photo. But this is just my 2 cents.

Here is a link to the photo, I have also attached it to this thread http://www.civil-war.net/cw_images/files/images/261.jpg .

[yeoman]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Sir, nice photograph indeed, one of those you can take time and enjoy the details. I would want to add with a question, is the soldier sitting on the barrel at right wearing gaiters? Nevertheless its a nice image and thanks for bringing it out.

[Dusty Merritt]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Must have been a cold day in July. Note the man in the overcoat in the right background. Was it common for soldiers to wear overcoats in the summer? A sign of recent rain? Some sort of fashion statement? Or is the image mislabeled? I've noticed this at least once before in a July '63 Gardner/O'Sullivan image of the Slaughter Pen at Gettysburg.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Hi,

That is very interesting.

Brendan Hamilton

Must have been a cold day in July. Note the man in the overcoat in the right background. Was it common for soldiers to wear overcoats in the summer? A sign of recent rain? Some sort of fashion statement? Or is the image mislabeled? I've noticed this at least once before in a July '63 Gardner/O'Sullivan image of the Slaughter Pen at Gettysburg.

Yes, he is wearing a pair of gaiters.

Mel Hadden

Sir, nice photograph indeed, one of those you can take time and enjoy the details. I would want to add with a question, is the soldier sitting on the barrel at right wearing gaiters? Nevertheless its a nice image and thanks for bringing it out.

I have been looking through lots of Civil War images, and I am still unable to figure out why are these men wearing two cartridge boxes. Another thing I have noticed, is the fact that all the men wearing the double boxes, have them mounted on two peice buckles. While everyone else is wearing either "US" or maybe New York State buckles. Any thoughts?

[lukegilly13]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

I believe the guy setting toward the right smoking the pipe (the NCO with his hands on his knees) may have on a flap holster....I see the saber dangling in the background on his left....possibly he's wearing a spare cylinder box and a flap holser?

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

This image has been analyzed in the past (another lost-in-a-crash thread, I presume), and is one of those prime examples of how useful it is to incorporate other forms of research into photo-analysis.

In short, the 41st was one of the NYC old-blood German regiments. As such, the twin cartridge boxes and belt plates are believed to be a weirdo Prussian import rig.

I had ID'ed a couple of the officers and NCO's in this photo when we portrayed Von Gilsa's Brigade a couple Remembrance Days ago, but those notes are...somewhere. Off the bat, the 2nd Lt. is most likely Alfred Theinhardt.

The officers of this regiment, as evidenced by their early-war portraits, were very much into their German military heritage, and I am convinced that the men are wearing a skull-and-crossbones insignia on their caps, which would be associated with the Black Brunswickers.

[markj]

FWIW,

If you have a copy of the CRRC (2nd ed.), peruse my article "Deutsche Achtung!" You'll quickly note that I included an extract of the above image.

This may also be of interest:

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/reghist/civil/infantry/41stInf/41stInfMain.htm

The officers visible in this image are probably these individuals:

Company C—Captain, Theodore Bracklow; first lieutenant, Ernest Hirschfeld; second lieutenant, Arthur Trainer.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

The cartridge boxes could be leaned to the M1850 prussian box as this unit wore Prussian pattern uniforms and equipment at that point of time. What is also very intereesting is that you see a drummerand a bugle on company level. I couldn't make aouta fifer though.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Hi,

Thanks for the information on the cartridge boxes.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Herr Berger, et al.,

Are there any photographs or details of surviving examples of the Prussian cartridge box?

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

There is a little info in the book "Patronentaschen, Patronengürtelund Bandoliere 1850-1950 by Alfred K. Kruk"

[roundshot]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Actually, when looking at the high resolution tiff version, it can be seen that many of the men are wearing panel-style waist belt plates of the type as shown below. Photo is a repro from Parsley Buckles website.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

That is highly interesting!!!!!! As my PC skills are limited, can you post that highly resoluted picture please!!!???

[roundshot]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Here's a couple of close ups. You can download the original tiff version directly from the LOC site.

[markj]

Re: Company C, 41st New York Infantry

Peruse, reflect, and enjoy (see attachment.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger