Dating Family Images

[J. Donaldson]

All-

My brother recently gave some images he found in my Grandmother's house and I'm not sure what era they come from, so I was hoping that viewers of this forum might be able to help me.

The picture titles include my guesses for who/time period the images represent.

If this is inappropriate for the forum, please delete.

Thanks for you help.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Dating Family Images

The woman's clothing/hair for the wedding picture are very 1840s; Cornelia has 1860s sleeves, Grandma could be anywhere from the 1840s into nearly 1860s, and the mother/child could be sisters, and holler 1840s, possibly into the very early 1850s (but I'd say 1840s more).

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Dating Family Images

Hallo!

If I had to "guess," I would say roughly the later "mid 1850's" due to the initial advent and spread of the ferrotype and ambrotype circa/kinda/sorta after 1852-1856ish.

IMHO, what looks like the late 1840's may in fact be more "conservative dress" still being worn into the mid 1850's if not early 1860's. And the collection of images being spread over a decade or so.

Again, just guesswork, and

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

(Sometimes "Dazed and Confused" is just a matter of the nervousness and novelty of sitting for an image, and/or the length of time one needed to hold still for the exposures.)

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dating Family Images

Here is a breakdown of image types and years they were most popular. It's from a noted source and some will argue either way, but typically this is the accepted range +/- a couple years.

Daguerreotype: Mid-1840's Peak years 1852-1854 Upto: 1865

Ambrotype: Early 1850's Peak years 1857-1859 Upto: 1865

Tintype: 1855 (invented 1854 / patent issued 1856) Peak Years 1860-1863 Framed: Upto 1867 Otherwise: 1930's


Also, you can consider the dress of the person, but most importantly, you must take into consideration the age of the subject & the type of image. The elderly lady for example appears to be on a tintype, however, this type of image was not made during the timeframe her clothing would indicate. She would have continued to wear clothing representative of her era, the 1840's.

John Walsh

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Dating Family Images

But, just to confuse things: women did not necessarily wear out of date things, and the old lady is not necessarily wearing out of date clothing... I do place her anywhere from the 40s to the 60s, but without viewing the photo first hand, it's hard to miss the clothing details that will place her far more specifically. Many telling aspects of women's clothing is easily and cheaply updated, and clothing does die a natural death at some point, even with very good upkeep and care; holding onto 20 year old styles is *not* the norm.

[garyjd]

Re: Dating Family Images

You can also use the style of the brass matt to (help you) date a photograph. ~Gary

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dating Family Images

Thing about Grandma is based on the image medium it could not be any earlier than 1855 (if it is a tintype).

However upon closer examination of the image I notice that there seems to be some flaking?


To the owner, is the image on glass or on tin?

John Walsh

[J. Donaldson]

Re: Dating Family Images

Thank you all for your help with these images. I've had a chance to re-examine some of them, and thought I would provide a little extra information should any one be interested.

What I have denoted as the "wedding image" is a tintype with a brass mat between the image and the glass. It is encased in a union case of leather with a flower motiff on the exterior of the case. The image is very silvered, to such a extent that the scan provided is the clearest way of viewing the image.

The second image, "Cornelia", is another tintype under glass within a gutta percha union case. The interior of the case has a label for "Littlefield, Parsons & Co., Manufacturers of Daguerrotype Cases. L., P., & Co., are the sole Proprietors and only legal Manufacturers of UNION CASES with the Embracing Riveted Hinge. Patented October 14, 1856, and April 21, 1857." Red velvet pad with pressed design facing the image.

"Garrett" is a tintype with heavy dust and aging. The brass matting around the image carries the imprint "Holmes Booth & Haydens Superfine." on the left side of the mat, and "Waterury. Conn. No. 43." on the right side of the image. By the way, this is my favorite image, as you can see sleeves rolled up, braces, and areas of wear on the pick axe over the shoulder. I have no true way to prove it, but I BELIEVE (and I've been wrong before) that this may be an image of a relative that went to the California gold fields.

"Grandma" is in a half of a union case made of pressed leather or treated cloth (more than likely leather, but I know there are people out there more knowledgeable than I about what these cases were made of. It looks like leather to me.) Pulling the image from the case, which I should have done in the first place, there is a tax stamp on the back of the image with a cancellation from Palmyra, NY dated May 22, 1865. Tintype. There is some puckering of the image on top of what would be her right hand.

"Mother and Child" is again in a leather union case with a floral motiff on the exterior, red silk/satin? lining facing the image on the interior. This appears to be on a sheet of copper rather than tin. There are scraps of paper used as shims that look like they were cut from the newspaper, but nothing that I can make sense of. This image is also so silvered as to be best viewed at an angle or with the scan provided.

As far as "Dazed and Confused" goes, timtype cut to shape for an album, but bearing a look on his face that just about typifies my family at one point or another. Great hat hair.

Again, thank you all for your expertise and opinions. The next major issue I need to confront is how best to store these images as to conserve them. Obviously no sunlight, but does anyone have suggestions as to how best to store daguerrotypes and tintypes? I'm not too worried, as they've spent the last 150 years, give or take, in the non-climate comtrolled attic of the ancestral manse, but I want to make sure that they last for another generation to save.

[minieball]

Re: Dating Family Images

The "wedding" image and "mother and child" are daguerreotypes (photgraphic images made on silver plated copper - very different process than wet-plate collodion). Judging from the medium and the dress, these both appear to me to date from the mid to late 1840's.

[minieball]

Re: Dating Family Images

But, just to confuse things: women did not necessarily wear out of date things, and the old lady is not necessarily wearing out of date clothing... I do place her anywhere from the 40s to the 60s, but without viewing the photo first hand, it's hard to miss the clothing details that will place her far more specifically. Many telling aspects of women's clothing is easily and cheaply updated, and clothing does die a natural death at some point, even with very good upkeep and care; holding onto 20 year old styles is *not* the norm.

It is also possible that this is a later copy of a daguerreotype. As Ms. Clark pointed out though its hard to make a call on this without examining the actual plate and image in person.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dating Family Images

What I have denoted as the "wedding image" is a tintype with a brass mat between the image and the glass. It is encased in a union case of leather with a flower motiff on the exterior of the case. The image is very silvered, to such a extent that the scan provided is the clearest way of viewing the image.

Minieball's assumption is correct regarding this image, it is a daguerreotype, especially with your description being almost 'silvered to the extent that scanning was the only option'. It is very unlikely it is a copy or photo of a photo.


Pulling the image from the case, which I should have done in the first place, there is a tax stamp on the back of the image with a cancellation from Palmyra, NY dated May 22, 1865. Tintype. There is some puckering of the image on top of what would be her right hand.

This is great, because you can almost 99% date the image. However, the tax stamp indicates when that image was made, not necessarily when it was taken, so if this is a copy, it could have been taken earlier, or in other words a copy of the original photo. Closer examination would determine this. Tax stamps on photos were utilized between Sept 1864 - Sept 1866.


Again, thank you all for your expertise and opinions. The next major issue I need to confront is how best to store these images as to conserve them. Obviously no sunlight, but does anyone have suggestions as to how best to store daguerrotypes and tintypes? I'm not too worried, as they've spent the last 150 years, give or take, in the non-climate comtrolled attic of the ancestral manse, but I want to make sure that they last for another generation to save.[/QUOTE]

The best thing to do is leave it as is. You want to make sure that the foil matte is between the glass and the image. This keeps the glass off of the image and prevents it from sticking to the image. If you have never taken an image apart, I don't recommend it.

However, before I put mine away, I carefully remove the outer foil (preserver) exposing the three pieces: Glass - Matte - Image. I then use only water and a papertowel to clean the glass (NOT THE IMAGE). I then put the image back together in the proper order: Glass - Matte - Image - Wrapped in the Preserver. The best way to store it is just the way it is and out of direct light.
John Walsh

[minieball]

Re: Dating Family Images

Mr. Walsh is quite correct in his advice for preservation for ambrotype and ferrotype images. However the daguerreotypes may require an addtional step. Firstly, daguerreotypes need an airtight seal between the glass and image plate otherwise they tarnish. If the seal on your images is broken you can reseal it with an archival tape like Filmoplast P90.

Typically a mat (gilded stamped brass or copper foil with a oval or scalloped opening) goes between the image and glass with the preserver holding it all together.