What jacket are they wearing?

[508preach]

I'm attaching a photo of the 50th Pennsylvania Infantry on parade in Beaufort SC in January of 1862 my question is because the image is so far away does it appear that they are wearing Frock Coats or Sack Coats?

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

My humble assesment is that they are in fatigue blouses. The bagginess in the arms is the first giveaway, followed by the shortness in length. Another interesting part of the image is the number of dark blue trousers versus sky blue (not all uniform here).

[GWagner]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Dude,

You need to visit Dr, Wise at the MCRD Museum.

He has a plethora of Federal images from Beaufort. He also has a mind worth picking.

I have a few names in Beaufort you could get in touch with. Good reenactors. PM me and I'll give you an e-mail address or two.

[Rob Murray]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

I would say "sacks". What I find interesting in the image is the placement of the line officers AND at least 2 mounted (what I'm assuming) staff.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Its hard for me to tell but do they also have sabre type bayonets?

[GreencoatCross]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

There's a high-res of that bad boy here:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...sgproto,ww2map

They're all wearing sack coats, and their rifles all have angular bayonets. There's a few guys with dark blue trousers but not many, and the majority of rifles have patch boxes. They're in full marching order and a few overcoats can be seen packed on top of the knapsacks; some apparently don't have overcoats.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

Curt

[33rdaladrummer]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

No knapsacks on the musicians...they're not even wearing belts. They're probably getting ready to march down the line and play the Troop.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

Curt

AHHH there ya go!! Pictures answer so many questions when you are able to see everything somewhat better, It looked like some of them are possibly carrying some 1841 Remington alteration muskets that was why I was thinking sabre bayonets. But I guess they are the 1855's....The hammer on the musket second soldier from left looked like it could be the 1841...Curt what do you think.

[508preach]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

Curt

AWESOME! I can not thank you enough for enlarging that photo for me, my computer doesnt have the program to get it like that and I thank you.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

Light reflection and refraction, coupled with movement plays h*ll with trying to see detail.

Easier one.. I "see" no M1841's. They all appear to rifle-musket or musket length, plus the "patchbox" on an M1841 is longer than that on an M1855.

Harder one...

I think I "see" several (without counting) M1822 alteration or M1842's based upon the flat buttplate, comb style, and the double loop nosecap/front band (one seen in the first muzzle visible on the viewer's left, and on the 7th man).

At first I thought that the mix of rifle-muskets and muskets might be explained by the 50th PVI perhaps still being one of those musket armed with the two flank (skirmish) companies being RM armed- but the apparent mixing is off.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[508preach]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Another thing that is note worthy, note the lack of breast plates on the cartridge box straps. And the lack of a cartridge box strap at all on the first man.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

Light reflection and refraction, coupled with movement plays h*ll with trying to see detail.

Easier one.. I "see" no M1841's. They all appear to rifle-musket or musket length, plus the "patchbox" on an M1841 is longer than that on an M1855.

Harder one...

I think I "see" several (without counting) M1822 alteration or M1842's based upon the flat buttplate, comb style, and the double loop nosecap/front band (one seen in the first muzzle visible on the viewer's left, and on the 7th man).

At first I thought that the mix of rifle-muskets and muskets might be explained by the 50th PVI perhaps still being one of those musket armed with the two flank (skirmish) companies being RM armed- but the apparent mixing is off.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

Curt, Right on! Thanks..It is a great photo...lots of stuff to chew on.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

Hallo!

I should go back and post this on the other thread, but...

Their captain is sabre armed.

:)



Curt

[Thomas Alleman]

Re: What jacket are they wearing?

You may notice also that their trouser are all not rolled up on parade. You can tell they were as they are way to long and very wrinkled. Great pic, early war indeed. I always wonder how guys screw up a Union impression with pics like this.