British accoutrements.

[Skutatos]

Sorry I can't upload this directly to the post, the internet way out here in the sticks is far to slow.

2 soldiers wearing British accoutrements in this set of images. The one on the left appears to have added buttons to his blouse and also seems to have a cap ventilator. The one on the right side looks like he has collar hooks on his. Maybe a Gale blouse?

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awweb/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=138

[GWagner]

Re: British accoutrements.

Asks for password.

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

Ill try to get them on here later this afternoon when I have time. Sorry for the inconvenience. Haven't tried posting photos from the USAMHI website before.

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

Alright, let's try this again:

[ironbrigade6]

Re: British accoutrements.

these photgraphs are great! Any unit id?

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

The one on the right is a Mr. John J. Wyeth and these were in a set of photos concerning the 43rd and 44th Massachusetts.

Searching here for John J. Wyeth places him in Co. E. 44th Massachusetts: http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/soldiers.cfm

It does not appear this regiment saw much service:

44th Regiment, Massachusetts Infantry (Militia)



Organized at Readville and mustered in September 12, 1862. Moved to Newberne, N. C., October 22-27. Attached to 2nd Brigade, 1st Division, Dept. of North Carolina, to January, 1863. 2nd Brigade, 4th Division, 18th Army Corps, Dept. North Carolina, to May, 1863. Lee's Brigade, Defences of Newberne, Dept. North Carolina, to June, 1863.

SERVICE.-Expedition from Newberne November 2-12, 1862. Action at Rawle's Mills November 2. Demonstration on Newberne November 11. Foster's Expedition to Goldsboro December 11-20. Kinston December 14. Whitehall December 16. Goldsboro December 17. At Newberne till February 10, 1863. Moved to Plymouth, N. C., February 10, and duty there till March 15. (Cos. "B" and "F" detached on outpost duty at Batchelor's Creek February 10 to May 1.) Skirmishes Deep Gully, Newberne, March 13-14 (2 Cos.). Regiment moved to Washington March 15. Siege of Washington March 30-April 20. Skirmish at Washington March 30 (Cos. "A" and "G"). Skirmishes at Washington April 3 and 15. Expedition from Newberne to relief of Little Washington April 7-10 (2 Cos.). Regiment moved to Newberne April 22-24, and duty there till June 6. Expedition toward Kinston April 27-May 1. Dover Road April 28. Moved to Boston, Mass., June 6-10. Mustered out June 18, 1863.

Regiment lost during service 11 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded and 1 Officer and 29 Enlisted men by disease. Total 41.

[Victor Sarna]

Re: British accoutrements.

Great photos! It appears to me that those Enfields are blued/browned! And it appears that the bayonet sockets and necks are also, can really be seen on the fellow on the left with his jacket tucked into his trousers. This is consistent with the British Army regulations of the time.

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: British accoutrements.

I see the ball bags and cartridge boxes. Can anyone tell if they have cap pouches or not?

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

Is that a Bartholomae canteen the guy on the right is wearing? It's kind of hard to tell but it certainly doesn't look like an 1858.

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

I was able to find another photograph of this regiment. Something I found interesting was the apparently badly molding hardtack laid against the knapsack.



As far as cap pouches go, It seems from this thread at least, that the ones Massachusetts purchased had them sewn to the cartridge box:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?20-British-Belt-amp-quot-Ball-Pouch-quot

[Horace]

Re: British accoutrements.

This subject is kicked around in this thread: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...deral+soldiers

In post number 12 of that thread, Tom Gingras says "In the particular case of Massachusetts the Adjutant General's Report does not indicate any [English knapsacks] being purchased and subsequently issued to Massachusetts soldiers by the state. I'll have to look around for my copies to be 100% sure, but the primary dealings Massachusetts had with the English were for rifles and leathers and then only in 1861 with some further deliveries in 1862 after that American production was able to meet the needs of the State."

The last post in the thread has a great little article written by Mark Jaeger. I attached it here. He mentions English accoutrements bound for the Confederacy on a blockade runner, which was intercepted and captured. the limey gear ended up going to Massachusetts troops.

All this corresponds exactly with what the men in these photos are wearing.

[Skutatos]

Re: British accoutrements.

Interesting, thank you.

[Chris Coblyn]

Re: British accoutrements.

The gentlemen on the left of John J. Wyeth is Mr. Charles Frederick Joy. I have a copy of a picture of Captain Charles F. Joy as a 2nd Lt. of the 54th Mass, as well as a Pvt. in Co. E, 44th Mass. According to "A Brave Black Regiment, The History of the 54th Massachusetts, 1863-1865" by Luis F. Emilio.

"Joy, Charles Frederick ; Captain Co. F.

8 Je 45 Roxbury ; single ; clerk ; Brighton.
2d Lt 26 Feb 63, must. 28 Feb ; 1st Lt 6 Mch 63, must. 16 Mch.
Discharged 17 Mch. for promotion
Other service - Co. E 44th Mass. 12 Sep 62 ; Co. F 2nd Mass Hy. Arty
31 Aug 63, Sergt. Feb to May 65 Actg Assistant Adjutant General,
2nd Brig. Coast Div. Dept. So.
Chelsea, Mass." Page, 334

An image of Captain Charles F. Joy as a 2nd Lt. is located in "A Brave Black Regiment" on page 184.

Sincerely,