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Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

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  • Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

    This: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEMENTO-MORI...item1c32ead1c5

    There's obviously something "off" about this photo, no matter how you interpret it. The pose of the soldier, even for standing portraits assisted by head-braces, seems a little stilted, and the camera angle seems unusual, too, with a slight tilt. Even when you correct the horizontal plane of the camera, the subject still appears to be listing to the side as if he were a continuous vertical column. Now, according to the research, the soldier pictured died while home on furlough — that would mean he likely wouldn't have arms and equipment with him. The items he has seem to be a little too neatly and properly worn to be photographer's props, though; they actually look like "his," and can point to this actually being a last-minute portrait done before his regiment's departure. However, the position of his arms and hands doesn't seem natural. The left hand is in a severe deviation and exaggeration of the position of the soldier, the arm fully extended with no hint of natural ease at the elbow, and the right hand position is wrong for ordered arms, as though it was placed to keep the weapon from pitching forward. Even though he's "dressed up" with shoulder scales, the gloves are a little unusual and may purposefully be hiding discoloration. The eyes don't tell me much—sometimes they just look like that—but his face looks as though there's nothing really supporting his jaw, and his chin has sort of sunken down to make his face appear rounder than you would expect from someone of his physique. The puffiness of the cheeks is suspect, too.

    Again, we've seen too many misidentified post-mortems and other gems on this particular auction site, but this one may have something going for it.
    Marc A. Hermann
    Liberty Rifles.
    MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
    Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


    In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

  • #2
    Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

    Look at the close up of his face and his left hand. Something's not right.
    [FONT="Book Antiqua"]"Grumpy" Dave Towsen
    Past President Potomac Legion
    Long time member Columbia Rifles
    Who will care for Mother now?[/FONT]

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    • #3
      Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

      "He's dead Jim"
      Aron Price
      AG

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      • #4
        Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

        I agree with all the above, but I'm trying to figure out how they did it. With that much lean, seems like he'd be ready to tip and actually harder to prop into position than if he were vertical. What's holding him up? The background looks like a real vertical studio, not a horizontal layout as if he were posed on the floor and photographed from above, especially with the shadow across the floor which makes him look as if he's actually standing a foot or two in front of the back wall. How was it done?

        Edited to add: You can see what looks like the base of a typical photographer's support behind his feet, but his center of gravity seems to be at the left edge of it, and I don't think those things were meant to have a whole 150+ lb. man leaning his entire weight against them, just for steadying.

        Hank Trent
        hanktrent@gmail.com
        Last edited by Hank Trent; 05-23-2013, 10:00 AM.
        Hank Trent

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        • #5
          Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

          The other thing is the partial flag, it is parallel to the upper half of his body.
          Andrew Grim
          The Monte Mounted Rifles, Monte Bh'oys

          Burbank #406 F&AM
          x-PBC, Co-Chairman of the Most Important Committee
          Peter Lebeck #1866, The Ancient and Honorable Order of E Clampus Vitus
          Billy Holcomb #1069, Order of Vituscan Missionaries

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          • #6
            Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

            I'm not on board with the ID being a post-mortem image. I think what's happening is that the photographer did not take a normal, straight-on image of this soldier, but instead positioned the camera at an angle (both to the side AND downward slightly to the subject and the wall) producing a perspective convergence. The mind tends to rationalize that the baseboard on the wall is perfectly horizontal. If the image was printed with the baseboard straight across, the soldier then looks like he is leaning drastically. However if the image is rotated so that the soldier appears vertical, the baseboard recedes in perspective. (See rotated image below). Notice also how the leg of the chair seems to lean drastically, but parallel to the soldier in the full image? Cameras and lenses do strange things with perspective when taken from an angle. My opinion: not a post-mortem.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by CompanyWag; 05-23-2013, 11:00 AM.
            Paul McKee

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            • #7
              Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

              I also do not believe that this is a postmortem image. As odd as this angle is and his stance, there is no real indication that he is dead. His eyes may look strange, but that is because he probably has very light blue or gray eyes. I have owned and worked with dozens of post mortem photographs over the years and I have never seen a "studio" photograph where the subject has his eyes open. The few that I have seen were done quickly, usually of some criminal.
              Scott Cross
              "Old and in the Way"

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              • #8
                Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                Hallo!

                Aha! Saved me from Photoshopping the POV angle. Thanks.

                I agree, it is an illuson of camera perspective/angle.. muchlike those (modern) illusions of people of seemingly tall people in a small room changing small to tall based upon the angles of the background and foreground distortions.

                Curt
                Curt Schmidt
                In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                -Vastly Ignorant
                -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

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                • #9
                  Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                  I think it is safe to say that the leaning chair is definitely dead in this image.
                  Paul McKee

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                  • #10
                    Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                    Originally posted by CompanyWag View Post
                    The mind tends to rationalize that the baseboard on the wall is perfectly horizontal. If the image was printed with the baseboard straight across, the soldier then looks like he is leaning drastically. However if the image is rotated so that the soldier appears vertical, the baseboard recedes in perspective.
                    Aha! That explains it.

                    So if he's dead, what's holding up all his weight? In other words, where is he suspended from? His clothes don't seem to hang as if he's wearing a harness. What's holding his head up? I'm just not sure you could pose a body vertically that lifelike.

                    As far as his eyes, yeah. my wife has a wetplate just like that, showing her blue-gray eyes as white.

                    Hank Trent
                    hanktrent@gmail.com
                    Hank Trent

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                    • #11
                      Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                      Originally posted by Hank Trent View Post
                      So if he's dead, what's holding up all his weight? In other words, where is he suspended from? His clothes don't seem to hang as if he's wearing a harness. What's holding his head up? I'm just not sure you could pose a body vertically that lifelike.

                      As far as his eyes, yeah. my wife has a wetplate just like that, showing her blue-gray eyes as white.

                      hanktrent@gmail.com
                      The point is, I don't believe that he is dead.
                      Regarding eyes, because sitters often blink a few times during an exposure, odd things can happen in the eye department.
                      Also, if the sitter's eyes are blue, they will register much lighter on the blue-sensitive emulsion used in period photography. Same as blue uniforms appearing light.
                      Last edited by CompanyWag; 05-23-2013, 02:16 PM.
                      Paul McKee

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                      • #12
                        Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                        Hallo!

                        To make a bad pun...

                        There is no evidence of the "suspension" needed to take a dead weight corpse and pose it without sag, droop, or sag anywhere. Aside from the oddly stiff left hand position he is holding, the body looks "perfectly" normal when false perspective is corrected.

                        No visible signs of stitching the open mouth drop closed. :) :)

                        Curt
                        "I's no insult to say a dead man is dead."
                        Curt Schmidt
                        In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                        -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                        -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                        -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                        -Vastly Ignorant
                        -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                          Ok playing devils advocate here, could he be in rigor mortise? There does seem to be a droop or an angle on the (our) left side of his coat, and there is a bit of a bend in his right ankle. Personally I think there is a incline on the photographers stage. This is a very interesting photo. As a side note did his regt receive Enfields or can we totally nail down the rifle as a prop?


                          Rigor mortis is when the body’s muscles become stiff after death, usually starting a few hours afterward and lasting for about three days.
                          Robert Johnson

                          "Them fellers out thar you ar goin up against, ain't none of the blue-bellied, white-livered Yanks and sassidge-eatin'forrin' hirelin's you have in Virginny that run atthe snap of a cap - they're Western fellers, an' they'll mighty quick give you a bellyful o' fightin."



                          In memory of: William Garry Co.H 5th USCC KIA 10/2/64 Saltville VA.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                            Please review the last issue of North South Trader. It has a similar picture of a dead Union soldier, as well as drawings and details of the stand/device that is holding him up.

                            Weldon Svoboda

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                            • #15
                              Re: Your Choice: Standing Post-Mortem, or nice regulation armed soldier portrait.

                              Hallo!

                              Rigor mortis is complicated as to body chemisty, age, sex, temperature, musculature, etc., etc...

                              Two to six hours after death's "primary flaccidity, " rigor sets in with the eyelids, neck, and jaw. Then over 4-6 hours spreads to other muscles and internal organs. It peaks say at 12, and then moves into putrefication in 24-60.

                              So there is a very narrow window depending upon "conditions."
                              IMHO, the problem with rigor is that it "freezes' the body in position, and by the time it releases and "softens up," putrefication has started if not delayed.

                              Curt
                              Curt
                              Curt Schmidt
                              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                              -Vastly Ignorant
                              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                              Comment

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