A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

[Eric Tipton]

Greetings:

Recently, I have been going back to the archives and "re-posting" Ryan Burns series of "close-up" photos of large resolution images from the Library of Congress. We received such a positive response, I thought it would be a good idea to continue taking a closer look at some selected images. There is nothing quite like seeing the originals and how they wore things.

This image is from the Library of Congress. The "close-ups" go from left-to-right from the main image. It has no identification of unit, date or location. Any assistance in identifying the image would be appreciated. Some general observations: Sack coats and jackets with more sacks. More hats than caps. Out of the hats, more civilian than Hardees. More boots than brogans on the ones you can see. Overall, I would guess Western Federals. What do you think?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Hallo!

If there were such a thing as a "typical' representative 'Western Federal" look, it might be this image. :)

But I would add possibly a late War period regiment, may be Illinois, Indiana, or Michigan due to their occasional use of "infantry shell" jackets or roundabouts.



Curt

[Eric Tipton]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Curt, I think you are correct on late war. I couldn't resist the guess on them being western, for the reason you have pointed out. They remind me a little of the "Federal Pickets at Atlanta" image from '64. Just based on their appearance and "wear", it would seem that they are mostly veterans. Hazard a guess on which theater? I'm sure there is some kind of documentation on this one somewhere. It just didn't show up in the LOC.

[Thomas Alleman]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

The hats, are they all black? I see quite a few that are not hardess? We scorn non black union hats but is that the reality?

[cod1tn]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers



Eric, I think this is the 21st Michigan Infantry. I have attached a photo of the same guys only in battle line at the same location. You can tell it is the same 1st Sgt in both photos. The gentleman with the beard sitting below the flag in your photo is fifth from the left in the photo I attached. The Sergeant holding the flag in yours is third from the right on this one. Also, the man laying on his side in front of everyone with his jacket open and with the cord on his hat is in the front rank of this photo as well. If you follow the chimney down to the men and than go a few files to the left you can see him standing there with his jacket still un done. There are a few others that I can spot in both. The National Archives identifies the photo I have attached as being the 21st Michigan. Here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnatio...n/photostream/. You can actually bigger on the website it is just too big to post on here.

They are definitely Western Federals. There are photos of the 44th Indiana and the 9th Indiana next to the same house and barn.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Mike, awesome. I knew somebody had to have more on this one. Any idea on the date?

[Coatsy]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Mike, great analysis. The men you mentioned certainly do match up in both images.

[cigichj]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Something else I've noticed with both images; many of the guys wearing fatigue blouses left the top button undone. It can be seen in some other images, and I haven't noticed too many re-enactors doing the same (at least not at events I've attended). So I've taken to wearing mine the same way.
Just my observations...

[Scotty017]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

The hats, are they all black? I see quite a few that are not hardess? We scorn non black union hats but is that the reality?

I would love to hear more thoughts on this as well. Guidelines for western Federal events always specify that civilian hats must be black. But is there a way to tell in a photo like this that some of the civilian hats aren't a dark brown or other non-black color?

[cod1tn]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Mike, awesome. I knew somebody had to have more on this one. Any idea on the date?

I have attached pictures of the 44th Indiana and the 9th Indiana Infantry next to the same buildings. My educated guess is Chattanooga in Spring of 1864. The 21st Michigan was assigned to the Engineer brigade based out of Chattanooga until June 1864. The 44th Indiana spent 1864 and 1865 on provost duty at Chattanooga. The 9th Indiana was active in the Atlanta Campaign so it may have been taken before the campaign got under way. That being said all three were stationed in Murfreesboro after the Battle of Stones River till the Tullahoma Campaign. I guess there is a chance this is somewhere near Murfreesboro in 1863. Maybe someone more familiar with these three units may know of a more exact date.

[cod1tn]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

The hats, are they all black? I see quite a few that are not hardess? We scorn non black union hats but is that the reality?

Thomas I agree with you on some hats being brown. This picture is not very good quality but here are some Western Federal Artillery soldiers. The soldier standing on the works and the one in the right rear of the picture definitely are not wearing black hats. I would say black was probably a majority but brown wouldn't have been uncommon.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Hallo!

In the "film' sensitivity of the time, it can be hard to impossible to determine exact hat color.
Obviously a light color like tan or light gray will be different, but then look at how closely what a likely black hat looks like compared to a dark blue forage cap or uniform jacket or coat.
Plus, black dyes will fade and weather with exposure and use, as well as a good coating of road or field dust form marching. I have some time and element faded black hats from the late 12980's and 1990's that are more brownish than black. (But with modern film and especially digital imaging, they look "black" in pictures not that it is relevant.).

That being said... it does tend to fly in the face of campfire myths and Reenactorisms that Western troops all favored non black hats as they were cooler in the hot and sunny Mid West. :) :)

I will see if I can find it. Back in the 90's, I once did a "photo survey" of several hundred Period images for our newsletter of US and CS troops counting what appeared to black versus light color hats.

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

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Thomas I agree with you on some hats being brown. This picture is not very good quality but here are some Western Federal Artillery soldiers. The soldier standing on the works and the one in the right rear of the picture definitely are not wearing black hats. I would say black was probably a majority but brown wouldn't have been uncommon.

Here are two good insights from my old comrade Mike Hoover in one thread. I am going to need to see some evidence that his account has not been hacked.

[cod1tn]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Here are two good insights from my old comrade Mike Hoover in one thread. I am going to need to see some evidence that his account has not been hacked.

Haha, the account hasn't been hacked!

[Utley]

Re: A Close-Up Image - Unidentified Group of Federal Soldiers

Awesome! Could get lost in these images for hours.....